Mr. Richert;

There are many important points and themes that many of us who agree with you, I am sure, have observed, however, there is one aspect that is overlooked and that is the ability for the theme to be hijacked by our domestic enemies( the Nuke Mecca crowd ), and secondly, the social aspects of “working with” the David Horowitz’s of the world.  I think of Paul Sperry who has navigated the chasm between antiwar.com and a serious look at domestic radical Islamic networks as one who should be leading the way on such social connections, where as the paleoconservative tactical approach might be focused on Eastern Europe and Chechnya where our domestic Republican/Beltway enemies are assuredly in bed with the folks they claim are the enemy.

I mean, of course the paleocons are right: get our boys home, and don’t invite them over, let alone put them on the dole.  Personally, I am all in favor of humane programs like repatriation bonuses, but on the policy front the image of ‘jackbooted thugs’ anda Maginot Line in the Southwest has carried the day.

Between the Islam apologists, who reward Muslims
extremists, and the enemies of Islam who punish Muslim
moderates, we are making a mess of it.

You miss the point.  Saying I want my children to dress modestly, and be in a gender segregated, drug-free, polite, etc. environment as occurs under Muslim rule v.s. the county-wide red-light district that most secularized cities are doesn’t mean I wouldn’t look for evil in Islam.  But evils can be different.

Conservatives can make the distinction that our founding fathers (and Aquinas) did that not all evil acts are or should be considered crimes and suppressed by the state.

And remember that the state isn’t asking for a bit of incense to be offered to Caesar - which the old christians died for - but that our children lose their virginity, faith, and souls.

Islam threatens my body.  Secular america threatens my soul.

Which you consider the lesser evil depends on which you consider the more valuable.

And the Neocons do want to gain the world.

And Thomas More replied “But Wales?”.  They did one better as the question would be “But Bagdad?”.

Pity, I thought this would be about Babar Ahmed - he is (or was) practically a next door neghbour of mine here in London.

I think tz took the words right out of my mouth.

Beyond that, I don’t think it is a sign of immaturity or foolishness to give Muslims--at least the one’s not burning cars in Paris or planning bombings in London--the benefit of the doubt.

@tz, is your devotion to “modesty and gender roles” coed
for the permission to mistreat women?

What do you wnat from Islam? The right, as given to
the Prophet to beat your wife when she disobeys you?
The right to lock any women so that they have to ask
your permission to step outside? The right to pile on
heavy clothing on them the hottest days of the year? The
right to eat your fill first and letting women eat the
leftovers if there are any? The right to kill a woman
because you think she gets too uppity, or because she
got raped (and you yourself can rape as much as you
want)?

Please explain what you want.

The obectification of women in this country has led to widespread eating disorders
and depression among women.  Women are encouraged to leave their children with
strangers so that they can compete with men in the workplace.  The working
mother has become mythologized in our culture as the working class heroine fighting
to raise her children in a fatherless home. 

When women in this country stayed home to raise their children they enjoyed
a status far greater than they do now.  They were the matriarch of the family.
The lifegiver and the caregiver.  Their work and effort in the home was
esteemed in our society and thereby fulfilling. Through the efforts of
feminism they have obtained a pseudo man second class citizenship.

Instead of being encouraged to be lifegivers and caregivers they are encouraged to
be destroyers and abandoners of their children.  As such they have lost
their status given them by God and nature.  Men once held doors open for women
and addressed them with the respect one would show their own mother.
These notions of chivalry are considered antiquated and foolish.

The women in this country that young girls look up to are often Paris Hilton,
Brittany Spears, Madonna, and Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Disgusting creatures all.
Is it any wonder then that Islamic women are not flocking to obtain
the status of this sordid lot?

M.Nucci, there’s nothing to disagree with in what you’ve written (unlike in what tz has written), but the point isn’t why “Islamic women are not flocking to obtain the status of this sordid lot”; it’s why so many supposed Christians think that Islam is going to rescue the West from the things you rightly excoriate.

Why not, instead, work on reviving a Christian understanding of womanhood?  But see, that would be too much work.  It’s easier just to let an Islamic one be imposed from the outside--that only requires us to sit back and do nothing.

“Islam threatens my body.  Secular america threatens my soul.”

If only that were true.  In fact, Islam threatens the soul of every Christian who thinks that a compromise can be made with it on the basis of “social values.” Start down that road, and, before long, you may be considering a conversion, too, as is the traditionalist Catholic I mentioned.

What would the fathers of the Council of Nicea say of such Christians?  Arianism, after all, at least retained a veneer of Christianity, and Arius respected Christ, though he misunderstood who He was.  Muslims, on the other hand, hold the Arian view of Christ, but they go further, declaring Him a coward who did not even die on the Cross.

Sure most muslims are not terrorists, most of them are not. And yes, Western peoples have become decadent consumerists.

However, it should be about our way of life. Muslims haven’t gone through modernity, you describe them as some sort of noble savages. If you dislike modernity, please convert now and get things over with. You’ll experience soon enough how horrible Islam really is. If not you, what about your wife?

I dislike your open disapproval of secular people. I myself am both paleoconservative/ libertarian and culturally Christian, yet not a believer. Although, I share most of my values with Christians and paleos.

Don’t shut guys like me out for that.

@Nucci

So you applaud that Islam does not have Britney Spears,
Paris Hilton, or Madonna.

Does it have a Mother Theresa?

Show us the Muslim Mother Cabrini. Show us the Muslim
Isabella of Castille, the greatest monarch that Spain,
perhaps the world, has ever known.

Pick up a book of women saints of the Catholic Church
and show us a Muslim equivalent.

If you do not, and still plead for Islamic values, I
will consider that all you desire is some pious excuse
to mistreat women.

As a Christian and reactionary anti-modernist, I don’t have a dog in the fight between the advocates of liberal secular democracy and the Islamists.  What we need to do is rebuild Christian society from the ground up and convert both the secularists and the Moslems.  Nobody said it would be easy.

Amen, Mr. Higdon.  That’s precisely the right attitude.

@Scott and Adriana,

It is certainly not that I think Islamists are going to save us from the
secularists, however I do see the secularists as the greater threat.
The history of the middle east is one of Christians living alongside muslims. Secularists will not stop until they completely wipe God out of society and replace him with atheistic ideals.  This is what their current agenda in modernizing Islam is all about, along with destroying
what is left of the Christians of the middle east.  At the same time they have effectively turned peace loving Christians in the West into war mongering statists.

If you are proposing that the women of Islam follow the model of Mother Thresa I would agree.  These are not the people that the mainstream media are suggesting as role models when they criticize the plight of women of Islam. The Virgin Mother of Jesus is revered in Muslim society.  When I see that this is true in the secular press I will listen to how they intend to bring Catholicism to the Muslims. 

This of course is ridiculous.  What they secular press hopes to do is drum up another excuse to liberate another country,to spread war over the middle east and destroy Christian communities while enlisting secular recruits.

@Nucci

In our secularist society you can erect all the churches
you want and they won’t put you in jail for it.

Ask the Christians of Saudi Arabia about it.

You cannot ally yourself with Muslims against securlarist
without abandoing your Christian Brethren in Muslim
lands, unless you ally yourself with westernized,
secularized Muslims who actually see a postive value
in tolerance.

Those who you see as your allies against secularims
would only be too glad to slit your throat as an
infidel. You are about as silly as those Leftists who
warm up to Islam because they fight “imperialism”, the
ones that Berke Breathed pokes fun at by means of
Lola Granola aka “Fatima Struggle”.

And as for the reverence for the Virgin Mary, it does
not translate as respect for women in general, nor a
tradition of communites of women doing the Lord’s work.

And if you want to see women in the media who are not
sluts, why, turn on PBS, turn on the Discovery channel,
turn on Animal Planet, turn on any TV channle that
depitcs human beings doing something of value with
their lives, in quiet competence.

For that matter, turn on “Stargate-SG1” and see how
their main female character is usally depicted in a
bulky one piece suit that only shows her head and hands,
and who is a responsible professional.

Go Adriana

Right on!

Who is the greater threat - secularists or Moslems?  That’s a bit hard to say because it can be looked at from several different angles.  Certainly the secularists have far greater power in the world, both hard and soft.  For those living in the core countries of secular liberalism there is the seduction of vice and near total control of education, the media and the political/judicial system.  For those in countries not completely conquered there are the black helicopters, the cruise missiles, the stealth bombers. And there is the threat of genetic manufacturing of suitable “humans” just barely over the horizon.  But the souls of the secularists are hollowed out and this makes them relatively easy converts.  Here is where the Moslems have the advantage.  They have a distorted idea of God and his will, but at least it is important to them to do the will of God.  This gives them a tremendous morale advantage - not only over secularists, but over weak Christians.  As I stated above, no one said this was going to be easy.

I seem to have missed something.

From what I am reading, either one is staunchly hostile to Islam and Muslims or one is a Muslim, and the most radical, fundamentalist type to boot.

Cannot one still be a Christian, not want to impose sharia and the Islamic state on the country, and still not view them as the greatest threat to Western civilization?

europe has a muslim problem because they have open borders immigration and a massive welfare state and are also kind of racist.  I’m not european.  I could care less if england is being taken over by muslims.  it’s their fault for letting them in.  same with israel.  I’m not going to pretend I’m some sort of christian knight guy for the sake of takis top drawer or whatever

Why would American enemies of the U.S. federal gubmint want to align themselves with Islamic extremists?  Why that would make about as much sense as if the American revolutionaries allied themselves with France against King George III.

@paul

I dunno.  Did the French want to cut the throats
of all non-Catholics they met in 1776?

“The women in this country that young girls look up to are often Paris Hilton,
Brittany Spears, Madonna, and Ruth Bader Ginsberg.”
Ruth Bader Ginsberg??!!?!?!? Young girls idolize her???  I don’t think most young girls know who she is…

I can understand people who consider secularists more evil, but don’t underestimate the clout of the muslims. They have the numbers.

...also, do not forget a third enemy of Christianity. Orthodox Talmudic Judaism with its Noahide laws.