summary:  w’ve lost iraq and afghanistan and since they were not sensible wars in the first place “winning” doesn’t really matter.  instead, we are determining sucess as getting the people we want to have a say in what goes on while allowing for the other side to have a piece of the pie as well. 

in other words, our “wars” have devolved into normal non military statecraft with petreaus playing the role of a sort of aggresive ambassador.

No victory in Iraq?  That’s not what the rightwing spin machine is saying.  According to John McCain, FoxNews, Weekly Standard, and a hundred talk radio parrots, “The Surge” has brought glorious Victory in Iraq.  Why, it’s the greatest stroke by the American military since the Inchon landing, but the Traitorous Mainstream Media is refusing to inform the American people.

And, the neocons proclaim, all we have to do now is repeat the Iraqi surge formula, with regional variations, in Afghanistan for Victory II, and we’ll be ready for the next step in the World Freedom Project, smashing Iran.

Expect some version of the above from McCain tonight in the debate.  There will be enough koolaid drinkers in the audience to ask the necessary leading questions, and if not, St. John will do a Palin, ignore the question and tell us how he saved us from defeat in Iraq and how Obama will declare unconditional surrender in his Inaugural Address.

Sun Tzu also said, “There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited.”

Sure, States benefit from them ("War is the health of the State”, as Randolph Bourne said), and war profiteers benefit from them. But for countries as a whole, protracted war is the road to ruin.

Its time for a draft. Conscription not beer. Raise the Legions and occupy the frontiers lest the the barbarian hordes sack New Rome on the Potomac. The Northern Command only has a scant Combat Brigade in place to quell the 5th Columnist liberals who pall with terrorists. We will need more Combat hardened counter insurgency forces to force the liberals in the northeast and on the West coast to keep paying their taxes to fund the Red Banner Statists who are supplying the troops for the great Crusade. God, guns, and guts, and the South will be fully avenged.

President Palin said we already achieved a glorious victory in Iraq and the troops are heading home. The late President McCain says victory is near and we need to do more surging, oops surgin.

Now we just need Cheney to resign and Bush to appoint McCain and resign before the election and declare a financial emergency and the Red Revolution will be complete. Makes you proud to be a Republican and a Conservative.

Saddam Hussein, in an act of political desperation as Desert Storm ended in an Iraqi debacle, fired SCUD missiles at Israel, and thereby sealed his fate. He could not be allowed to remain in power, even though he had successfully kept Iraq’s three rival factions in check over decades, and had thereby provided stability in the world’s premier oil region. With Saddam gone, the factions and their splinters are directing their aggressiveness against each other rather than against the Region’s Only True Democracy. 

The key to US policy undoubtedly was to maneuver an Israeli-neutral strongman to win out, someone as strong as Saddam Hussein once was, but someone more pliable like Hosni Mubarak or the deceased King Hussein. But with centrifugal political forces growing out of control, such an outcome seems increasingly unlikely, despite the ballyhooed success of the Surge, which may be nothing more than a delaying tactic to keep us in the game. Unless Israel’s survival can be assured, US Forces will remain, and remain, and remain.  It might not be as simple as declaring victory at a new truce line and leaving. Realpolitik.

does anyone REALLY care if we lose iraq or afghanistan?

they are bushes wars.  I think the world and history would understand if we walked away.

I know the ability to hold two contradictory ideas in mind simultaneously is a sure sign of intelligence but really now, exactly how does the good Mr. Buchanan pimp for the Neo-Cons Pet Palin on the telly and come here and write his anti-war pieces? You’re a fine bard Pat but cripes it don’t add up.

I know, silly question.

he got bitten by the machiavelli bug during the nixon years

I don’t share in the admiration of Petraeus. There’s a point where even a man in uniform has to take a stand against his civilian bosses- even at the cost of his career. Someone in the military needs to make it clear to anyone who will listen that this “war” is a waste of lives and money.

You cannot invade and occupy a country with a different culture and expect and demand love and respect. You will be despised for generations. And these folks do not suffer from ADD, their descendants and their will remember what America did. Americans think that because in the US you can buy anything with money- included people, their hearts and their minds- that same principle works everywhere else. No it doesn’t. “There is no god but money” is an exclusively American principle. Even if you pay the occupied, you will be hated. No one wants to be occupied by foreigners- no matter how many (questionable) blessings and dollars they bring.

We have no business managing insurgencies or civil/religious wars around the world- even if we were responsible for the mess to begin with.

And those who decided that Americans have to pay and die to protect pipelines to Israel need to be held accountable for their treason.

I know the ability to hold two contradictory ideas in mind simultaneously is a sure sign of intelligence

There was a nice clip on the Daily Show of a McCain interview on the bailout where he furiously takes credit for passing it and then attacks it as a horrible bill. He goes back and forth in a vicious manner in an almost out of control bout of schizophrenia.

Stewart said he is like Gollum. I lovess it. I hatess it. Then he said it was a bad comparison since Gollum was an old man driven insane by his fanatical lust for supreme power.....

Pat’s a ‘play’eh’ in the fray and runs on his own instincts alone.

In other words whether he realizes it or not, and he does in my opinion, Pat’s alone.

That’s these ‘classically’ liberal times wherein the individual was/is emphasized at the expense of the group. 

The problem of course being that the only meaningful individuality we have, and can enjoy is thanks to the group.  But in these times none actually remain on Pat’s side of the tracks.

So Pat is left holding the bag and pimping on t.v. for the only actual group remaining. And because of that he’s allowed to appear too as a face in the communal campfire known as t.v.

It’s either do what his instincts tell him to do as an exaggerated ‘individual’ out on a limb. Or quit. So he keeps on trucking and remains a ‘play’eh’ making money. Very sad.

Got’group?

One wonders if second class citizens i.e. gentiles - if they ever figure this out will by then be allowed to congregate in groups? Emperors and ruling elites and even the first class citizens historically don’t much ‘like’ groups. I.e. they don’t like ‘other’ groups, that is. You know the rest of ya’s are - can I use the ‘n’ word?

Good grief.  Buchanan is an outstanding commentator both on TV and in print.  Who makes more sense in either venue?  The carping and criticism is entirely misplaced.

@ Jack Rich,

“I don’t share the admiration for Petraeus...”

Neither do I.  But generals have stood up for us, and have lost their jobs for it.  Look at “Fox” Fallon.  Wouldn’t talk tough enough on Iran, now he’s axed.

I don’t think that the average
“Joe six-pack” gives a Tinker’s
Dam about Iraq or Afghanistan.
Unless they have a loved one
serving in either place. Or,
sadly, a family member or
friend who has been killed
or wounded in either conflict.

The above said.  Pat doesn’t go
far enough (I know, the column
length is limited) regarding the
USA’s dirty dealings with Saddam
and the CIA/Saudi involvement in Afghanistan. Both situations exist
today because of our past
actions during the Cold War.

What most Americans don’t know
is that our relationship with Saddam started long before the invasion of Kuwait. Saddam was a Sunni Arab Frankenstein created by the Neocon Reaganites during the late 1970s as a counterbalance to Iran. He was no longer “useful” to them after the Iran-Iraq war. Unfortunately, he didn’t just “go away.”

I believe the CIA term is
“blowback.”

The troop increase in Iraq initiated last year has provided the GOP with a firm talking-point toehold in a year the party should be slipping off the precipice. It’s obvious now that was the intent. President Bush announced the troop increase a mere two months after the Republicans had taken a pasting in the 2006 elections - losing control of Congress for the first time in 12, long “Contract With America” years.

And, yes, putting American troops in harm’s way for political purposes at home is nothing new. Nevertheless, it’s a manipulative ploy of breathtaking cynicism and soullessness.

The cover story for the Surge had the strategy - Bush’s first real military initiative in what was then four years of war - buying time for the Iraqi government to unify and set the blood-soaked country on a course to become a Jeffersonian democracy in a land where respect for self-government and human rights is traditionally as rare as wet bars and nude beaches.

In that respect, the Surge is a monumental failure. The government of Nouri al-Maliki is chaotic, divided and shot with deadly intrigues. The only points upon which official Iraq can agree are to save for a rainy day all the nation’s oil earnings and push Bush for a timetable to withdraw American troops.

But you’ll hear little of this in the media loop. Any inkling that the Surge has been a costly mistake is a pet peeve of benighted mortals down here in the reality-based world.

As designed, the Surge has been a boon to Republicans. They constantly point to it as proof the war strategy is working. ...That, somehow, a slight reduction in the country’s daunting death tolls is proof that victory is possible. ...Just around the corner. ...Somewhere, someday. They bait Democrats, squinting their eyes and probing deep to discover if cowering opponents ever had harbored pantywaist doubts about the brilliant tactic.

As all but the blinkered few have given up on this nightmare, the GOP’s address to the war is restricted to this endless yap about the Surge, as if this expensive, overextended operation can be transformed through rhetorical alchemy into a strategic touchstone – a resounding denunciation of prickly questions about the wisdom of launching the war in the first place, a dim outline of what “victory” in Iraq may look like.

Bullshit.

The Surge was nothing more than a phony feint, a deliberate scheme to give the GOP a talking point in this election year. As such, it is the ultimate signifer of the Bush Administration: ugly, degraded and manipulative.

It’s time to pack in our expensive, criminal crusade in the Middle East. Iraq has nothing to do with the terrorists that do threaten us. And our other “causes” in the region can look out for themselves. Empires past cost everything for the nations that built them, and barbarians at the gates enjoyed the only “victories”.

What is that creature that sits next to Pat on MSNBC?

No, Durant, with all due respect, a draft will solve nothing. No one except for a few oddballs in Congress (like Charles Rangel) want the return of conscription. The military doesn’t want it and the public doesn’t want it. If the draft were to rear its ugly head again, the antiwar movement would finally have a cause, just like during the Vietnam War.

I recall reading a long time ago that if the USA did restore the draft, it would be six months to a year before it would have any effect on US military readiness.

For myself, I believe that conscription is “involuntary servitude”, i.e., slavery. The problem is not really that this country has too few ground troops, but that this country has too many wars. End the Afghan and Iraq wars; end the whole foolish “global war on terror”. A country in as bad economic shape as America is has no business fighting one war, let alone two guerrilla quagmires and making plans for more wars down the pike.

The whole stupidity of the surge is working is this.  If it is working so well then why not double or triple that number and end this silly thing so everyone can come home?

Buchanan approvingly quotes MacArthur as saying, “(O)nce war is forced upon us, there is no other alternative than to apply every available means to bring it to a swift end.” This brings to mind Dresden, Nagasaki, Tokyo, and other sites subjected to “every available means.” America and the rest of the civilized world long ago joined in rejecting this idea—which, when expressed by MacArthur, reflected a desire to use several nuclear weapons against China—as essentially immoral.

w’ve lost iraq and afghanistan and since they were not sensible wars in the first place “winning” doesn’t really matter.  instead, we are determining sucess as getting the people we want to have a say in what goes on while allowing for the other side to have a piece of the pie as well. 

in other words, our “wars” have devolved into normal non military statecraft with petreaus playing the role of a sort of aggresive ambassador.

Do we need America? Any of it? I think some central Asians might settle for a lake or two, if they have fish or a beach.
Maybe better still, just flatten it all.

Mr. Buchanan I was trying to figure out why you raised none of these points in the presence of Christopher Hitchens on Joe Scarborough’s show Monday. Now the idea that Iraq will “pay for itself” has gotten new wind. You might have pointed out to the viewers that we are paying the Sunnis $300 million a month to lay off attacks. We’ve been paying the Egyptians protection money for 30 years already, the latest scheme from Hitch is to corner the market in raw opium? Soon only chumps won’t go after us or our “friends.”
The only question is how long it will be before payoffs to thugs falls under the newspeak rubric of “victory”?

Hello Dumbledore USA. No insult required.

Do we need America? Any of it? I think some central Asians might settle for a lake or two, if they have fish or a beach.
Maybe better still, just flatten it all...NOW.

Do we need America? Any of it? I think some central Asians might settle for a lake or two, if they have fish or a beach. Maybe better still, just flatten it all.

Since, as an American, I’m not my most attractive pancaked, I think a more pertinent question might be, for us, as Americans:

Do we need Israel?

If we’re honest with ourselves, it won’t matter how we spin it - the answer will always come up no.

One can certainly understand why the US is the most hated country on earth. And if there’s one thing that this administration has excelled at is making sure more people hate us even more strongly.

One would think that at some point the world would have enough of this mad teenager of a country that is no good at school but only at sports, playing war, and wasting the parents’ money.

For a while now I’ve entertained the notion that USA since its inception is simply Evil. From the wealth of curious pentagrammic and masonic symbology in DC, to decision after decision by US presidents to bring about nothing but suffering, misery, death, and destruction to the world and itself, to its population so intent on corrupting its own youth and willing to do nothing other than worship money above all else and at all times. It’s a challenge not to see the US as the Horned One’s headquarters on earth. Not that I believe in Judeo-Christian myths, but if there were such a One, he could not be more pleased with how America has turned out. Being the good deceivers that the politicians are, however, their rhetoric paints America as the righteous, just, paradisiacal, holy haven that is acting out nothing less than some god’s will spreading blessing everywhere. One just has to listen to the speeches from this president and one would think that America’s actions are by divine command. But since that is marketing we really need to translate all that into its opposite to get to the truth.

But without the America, where would the world get its fine entertainment and porn from?

“For America’s great wars, MacArthur and Eisenhower were the right generals.”

Correction: MacArthur and Patton were the right generals.

George Marshall was the best General. Dugout Doug was the George MacClellan of the war.

Patton was good at riding down Vets at the order of MacArthur. I recall one of the vets had saved Patton’s life during the war.

Marshall oversaw a two front war and he wore three rows of ribbons. MacArthur was the most decorated officer in WWI but you wouldn’t know it as he didn’t bother to wear his decorations.

Generals now feel undressed if they don’t have a half breast plate of gongs with CIB, jump wings, black board monitor and bottle caps on their chest to show we better defer. So much for Washington and Cincinnatus. Peacock Patton adoration is all about the militarized police state we inhabit.

We are Germany in 1933 waiting for the Army and Bush to declare a crisis and make this a dictatorship.

Our founding fathers knew and feared a standing Army and occupation which is where we are as of Oct 1. Real American Republicans counter-revolution has destroyed the Republic with the glad assistance of despicable cowardly Democrats like Nasty Pelosi. She was threatened by Bush to pass the bailout or he would declare martial law and she capitulated. She is Benedict Arnold in lipstick.

On the other hand Arnold was the best General in the Revolution whose changing sides was caused in part by politicians.

Paul D.A. wrote:

“No, Durant, with all due respect, a draft will solve nothing. . .. If the draft were to rear its ugly head again, the antiwar movement would finally have a cause, just like during the Vietnam War.”

While it doesn’t address your absolutist anti-draft-as-involuntary-servitude position, your two statements above, read together, are contradictory.

But if we don’t fight the terrorists over there they’ll use that as a base and come over here. Remember that line

Doesn’t seem to factor into US politics that every terror attack after 9/11 and 9/11 itself have links to Bosnia, Kosovo and Chechnya which the US fully supports.

They even gave the KLA Kosovo after explosives from an old Chinese warhead was smuggled out of Kosovo and used in the London bombing.

It is all about hard work industry and how we spend our money:
1. WE fired our workers and sent jobs overseas.
2. This resulted in balance of trade deficits kike the world had never seen.
3. We were given a second chance as the chinese and others gave us loans to restructure our economies.
4. we used the loans to wage wars.
5. we turned the equity in our homes into casinoes.
6. now we have been turned into beggers.
7. Lets start acting like beggers

AL,

Sublimate your legitimate anger at the particular injustices that have been committed against our people into a general fight on our peoples’ behalf.

Fight for your people, join us.

CaptainChaos:

Thanks for your comment, I’m an old man and the all I can do is share my 2 cents worth.
One statistic: The production of goods is now 12% of our GDP. That says it all. The rest has just evaporated.
We need to discard Reaganism and get some grown ups in the room to rethink how we are going to restructure our economy to compete in this world of cutthroat competition, diminishing resources, and Global warming.
We need to sober up first.
Lets start by making Levi Jeans in the land that invented them.

@ CptChaos,

Al’s right that one factor for preserving our EGI is definitely bringing a manufacturing base back to this country.  Now we are all discouraged with empty consumerism, but a policy of new industrialism in the future is one way to ensure that our interests are not sold across the sea again.  Especially if said industrialism is not for mere superfluous production, but rather for technological advancement.

Agreed.  But we need to conceptualize all policy prescriptions in the context of what is good for our people.

Libertarianism, capitalism, socialism?  Some mixture of all is, I think, in order to serve the our interests.

In the coming years, depending on how badly the Republican party is damaged, we may be able to make some progress towards turning it into what some disingenuous or deluded critics say it is: the White peoples’ party - a true nationalist party.