Since I live in Texas, I haven’t had a chance to vote in a primary yet, and I may not bother.  I’ve been contributing money to Ron Paul’s campaign just in the hopes of getting the message out, but the only message being disseminated by the old right is one of weakness to the point of irrelevance.  In the age of global empire, probably only global anarchy will eventually bring a painful and bloody rebirth of political freedom.  In the meantime, the bumper sticker wisdom “don’t vote; it only encourages them” acquires new meaning every week.  I’ve followed that wisdom for the past dozen years or so and should probably go back to following it.

Sure Great Britain under George III had low taxes on the home country, well maybe, as they were raking in all that money from Empire, they had no need to tax the British people at home that much. And I’m sure all those tens-of-thousands of men pressed into the British Navy are laughing someplace about never dreaming of a draft. Didn’t need one, just grab them and anchors aweigh. And how did they maintain such a large army around their world empire, the one on which the sun never set?

Most Americans don’t believe in freedom because they don’t know what it is. The powers that be take every opportunity to frighten people into letting them take away whatever freedoms yet remain. The bogeyman of the moment changes—Nazis, commies, hippies, illegal immigrants, Muslims, whatever—but the strategy is a constant, and it continues to be successful. It would be nice if Americans in general were skillful critical thinkers who could see through all this stuff and balance real threats against real losses of freedom in an intelligent way, but guess who controls the public education system in this country?

All of us who are conservatives and would like on on return to constitutional limited government and peace need to be stand up and be counted.

10 percent translates to 30 million fellow Americans who love liberty and want an end to the welfare/warfare state.

Despite the smears and attempts to silence Dr. Paul like Barry Goldwater before him he is getting the message out and mobilizing friends of liberty.

We owe it those who came before us and to those that come after us to not allow despair to grip us and lead us into apathy.

10 percent translates to 30 million fellow Americans who love liberty and want an end to the welfare/warfare state.

But if that 30 million is spread out all over the US how much influence can they have at the Federal level, much less at the state level.

We owe it those who came before us and to those that come after us to not allow despair to grip us and lead us into apathy.

John. Been there. Done that.  The Paul politics was a brief burst of enthusiasm that will rapidly elide into evanescence.

Nothing will survive his candidacy. There will be no program or structure to survive him. In the future, some other no-real-prospect-politician will pick-up the mantle of liberty and there will be another brief parade of true-beleivers bound for the short hike into oblivion.

Mr. Z is spot-on. Goodbye to politics.

I am going to continue to treat it as a pleasant diversion but my real passion is to become a Bob Dylan Lyricist.

I am working on a new song for him - “Fire on the Mountain” Tell me I don’t have an ear for Dylan. I can hear him singing this…

There’s a fire on the mountain,
Where the Lobster’s Big is moss.
Will Senator Hatch a plan,
and does Bin Laden Floss?

Dang. Lobster’s BIB, not lobster’s big

Why despair?
Nothing has been lost and everything gained.
Ron will continue to push forward and I for one
will be right there behind him all the way.
This battle is not for the faint of heart.

“To the brave go the fair!”

The thought that 10% of America is ready to fight
gives me great hope for this nation.
Pooh-pooh if you like, but don’t get in the way.

Mr.Zmirak

BTW, James Ostrowski (at LRC) has suggested a new
motto for your State: Live free...or DIE!

quite apt I’d say.

Hate to say it, but: I told you so.

Mr. Zmirak:

Maybe you need a bit more historical perspective as to
why people prefer powerful States. 

It has to do with the alternative being feudalism, the
tyranny of the local strongman.  Historically it happened
when the Roman Empire disintegrated and the only way
people could get any protection at all was by submitting
to the rule of the local warlord (Hayek got it wrong,
historically serfdom did not grow out of a strong state,
but of its disappearance). And the inconvenients of
rule by local strongman were such that a strong State
that a)permitted free movement to find a better place
to live it b) was less intrusive in its demands, since
it lived at considerable distance and could not sustain
as much interest in the minutiae of daily life.

And like it or not, in the nineteenth cenutry corporations
set themselves up as feudal lords (like owning whole
towns, having their own currency, and policed private
guards), there was a very good reason for people to
embrace the State, not because they hated freedom but
because they loved it and knew where to get more of it.

Perhaps libertarians ought to consider whether they
might not call themselves feudalists, as they have a lot
to say about tyranny by the state but not tyranny by the
local strongman - or corporation. 

As for myself I am a bit wary of those who in their
enthusiasm for freedom seem determined to re-invent
the less admirable features of the Middle Ages (like
advancing te idea of tolls to pay for roads and bridges,
unaware that they are reinventing internal tariffs for
non-local goods)

baffling.  it looks like a poll from a year ago. 

I think Mcain is getting the kind of support Thompson got early on:  people who give him attributes he doesn’t have.  like as a straight talker or honest man.

I, personally, would like to use the term “feudalist”, but it would take entirely too much explanation and potential misunderstanding for that to be worthwhile.

The main problem is that, in America, there never was a Roman Empire to base any fiefs upon, there was no historical “ruling class”, no Roman military garrisons, etc.  There was vast amounts of arable land and some “savages”, feudalism then was an impossible system - it can not be imposed (nor can liberal democracy, see: Iraq).

To say the “company town” was feudalistic is fair, as the term has no real concrete meaning.  I suppose it is the latent distributist in me that would love to see the return of the “company town”, but with ownership by labor, a co-op, if you will.  The problem is, that system never took hold in America.  As to why, I always figured it was the lack of good private education available to the general population after the 1860’s, and the domination of the public, that is, government run, schools, which was very much against an educated, FREE, population.  This continues to this day.

In the end, yes, politics, for those of us that support freedom from the State, is over.  Expect more “Patient’s Bill of Rights”, “Employees Bill of Rights”, “Customer’s Bill of Rights”, etc.  At least we’ll be free from “corporate tyranny”.

10% of the GOP isn’t 10% of the Americans. But as “willb” says Why Worry? Maybe it is the best that could happen. A principled man like Dr Paul doesn’t despair because of a setback.

Maybe the Ron Paul campaign will shift into a higher gear now? If I were him, I’d start challenging the honesty of my opponents. Begin with Huckabee. There’s dishonesty for you, it would be enough for a whole convention.

Huckabee is a greedy lying crook and there’s ample of evidence of that. There was something about negotiation with Vincente Fox about building a Mexican consulate in Little Rock, and finance it with local Big Chicken money. This is against the Constitution. You may not as an unauthorized citizen negotiate such matters with foreign powers.

Also there’s the matter of the pardoned rapist, Wayne DuMond, who raped and killed two women a couple of weeks after being set free thanks to Huckabee’s pressure.

David Huckabee, son of Mick, torturing and killing animals. Unpunished thanks to Big Daddy.

The Huckster also lied about his degree, there is none.

Huckabee raised taxes in Arkanzas so much as to nearly doubling them. But it really was necessary. He namely pushed for a program to give Mexican (and other foreign) women pre-natal care. This care has turned out to cost US$15-25.000 per woman. And there’s plenty of them in Arkanzas.

Anne Coulter described him as “easily led and stupid” which may explain why the establishment like him.

Do we need to mention Rudy Giuliani? The firemen of New York City are very much against him, which says it all. His New York City paid mistresses, his wifes and his semi-incestuous marriage which was anulled in murky ways by a crooked priest of the Catholic Church. Does that sound like a decent guy?

John McCain is married into a mafia family. He can speak as much as he wants about having been a POV and fighting for his country, he lives off criminals.

Thompson shouldn’t be in the race at all. Nixon described him as “dumb as hell” which probably is true.

Mitt Romney has flip-flopped so often that nobody can be sure of what he is about. But he hasn’t flip-flopped on his neoconism. Kagan is a “brilliant strategist” according to him. This is Bush prolonged.

We have until now only seen the warm-up. Now it’s time for the Ron Paul campaign to take off the gloves and play hardball.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

Mr Senna, none of that matters.  90%+ of Americans would rather DIE than live free.

All of those things you mentioned about the other candidates doesn’t matter, as long as they offer slavery and war to Americans, they will get votes.  The one candidate that offers the most war and the most slavery will win the election.

1. Don:  The British Empire, like the American, largely fought hopelessly weak opponents (Indians, American Indians, and latter-day paleolithics) When faced with an equal on battlefield, Brits and Gringos either have been bested or win either by taking a gang into battle or, in the manner of Grant, Foch, and Haig, not by strategy but by just having more cannon fodder.  Well now the “paleolithics” have learned 4th Generation War; using that kind of war, they beat the British Empire, and now are beating the Gringo Empire.

2. Once again, Gringos know nothing about forming political parties.  We need a new Jeffersonian Party, 100 years after Wilson destroyed the old one.  If Jeffersonians can learn the the art of party formation, there may still be hope.

3. I give Adriana’s remarks another twist.  The Road to Serfdom is reaching its terminus.  Gringos (and Europeans and Canadians) are Serfs of The State.  Gringo feminists, having giving up their husbands, now en-serf themselves to Leviathan. The old company town is now run by the Federal Behemoth.  Ron Paul wants to take an easy paycheck away from people (who don’t realize than they’d have more money with lower taxes).

4. All politics is ...... regional.  Iowa and NH have little in common.  So naturally the results are different.  They may be different in South Carolina.

Ferdinand Braudel is correct.  Things don’t change.  New England hasn’t changed since 1641.  It is inhabited by Puritans and (around the edges of New England) “Scots-Irish”, the latter quickly indoctrinated by the former into “The principal pleasure of New England”: hate.  The successive Catholic ethnics also fell into line.  So yesterday a “Scots-Irish” warrior won the Republican vote, and a Puritan won in Nurse Ratched, she ever ready to make Gringoland look like Salem MA.

We’ll see with South Carolina.  My prediction, for what it’s worth: Most of the state is upcountry “Scots Irish”, and they like a warrior and will vote for McCain.  Blacks will vote for Obama.  Feminists, school teachers, and the old will vote for Nurse Ratched.

5.  The press (and their pollsters) is lying.  They knew their gal Hillary would win.  They only wished to make her look like “The Comeback Kid”.  It took a while this morning to find the actual percentage of her vote in the morning news.

when my girlfriend went to vote at 7AM she called me afterward to let me know that all the candidates except Guiliani and Paul had supporters with signs at the polling place here. I was a bit dismayed about that but thought, well - all the RP folks are still in Concord and will be here soon. I went to vote around 10AM and found that there were still no Paul folks, nor Guiliani for that matter, at the poll. I had not planned this but went home and got my Ron Paul sign and went back to the polling place and stayed there, except for a lunch break and to walk my dog, until the polls closed at 8PM (most polls in NH closed by 7 but we were open till 8). I have to give a lot, and I mean a lot, of credit to the Hillary Clinton campaign effort. She had folks all over my small town of 16,000 and they were out all day and getting people to the polls. Obama had a similar effort going. Unfortunately, the Ron Paul campaign consists of 1000s of highly dedicated supporters here with insufficient support from the campaign Hqs. By that I mean they didn’t organize, plan, or execute professionally. It was run “willy-nilly”. And, with all the contributions donated, the ad money was not effectively used. Very amateurish constant rubbish on the radio to the point of annoyance, I thought.  Was there any training provided to these dedicated folks? The thought probably was, “well, this is grassroots and let them run with it”. Obama is grassroots as well but his staff understands how to effectively run a campaign and they ran it pretty well here.

I had no illusions about Ron Paul winning here, I just wanted him to at least beat out Guiliani and latently Huckabee. That
didn’t happen and it’s a damn shame.

We had a record voter turnout here yesterday which shows the people are fed up with the status quo. Women especially were out in force. I spoke with several Edwards and Clinton supporters as I was in their midst. Surprisingly, or not I suppose, their impression of Ron Paul was very favorable, the only Republican they liked on any level. Edwards supporters sympathised with me on the “main stream media” is shutting both candidates out theme. As an aside, one small town here, Sutton, Population 20, has 3 people who will confirm they voted for Ron Paul but in the morning the computer count for Sutton shows zero votes. I don’t think there was any hanky-panky here in Exeter, I noted 8 people who spoke to me on the way in saying they were voting for Paul (boy, was that discouraging for me) but in the end 167 folks here voted for him.

Lesson I learned is that many many women are getting out to the polls to vote for Clinton. It’s discouraging to me that they are doing so not because of a candidate’s positions but soley due to Clinton being a woman. But, that’s being simplistic a bit. The big issue for them is health care and so we go on living in the Nanny state. Alas, McCain, Romney, Guiliani, Huckabee or Thompson cannot beat Clinton. Paul can but the higher ups in his campaign need to learn some lessons fast and hard.  You can not let 1000s of Paul supporters run willy-nilly all over a state without tragic consequences.

Paul never had a chance and anyone who thought he did was fooling themselves.  At best he might have achieved a Perot-like shakeup of the system but apparently he won’t even reach that level. 

This whole Paul episode is a good example of modern conservative and libertarian politics in microcosm. 
Paul and his supporters want to talk about taxes and freedom; his opponents successfully attacked him as a racist. 
Politics in America since the 1960s has been about race and culture, and you can’t confront a fundamentally genocidal system with a philosophy of individualism.  Paul thinks the struggle is about personal freedom, the system grabbed him by the short and curlies and showed him what it is really about.  The Republicans and Buckleyites gleefully joined in, indeed initiated, the assault on Paul for the obvious reason that his platform (straight, old-time conservatism for the most part) is an embarrassing reminder of their hollowness.  They’re country club elitists who only care about their class interests and are not above tapping in to racial correctness, as they have proved oh so often, to quell any insurgency on their side.  (National Review has some major PC skeletons in its own closet, it’s interesting that they never get attacked over them). 

New Hampshire is rapidly going blue due to the mass influx of liberals fleeing the nests they have so thoroughly fouled.  New Hampshire is largely a Black (and Mexican and Puerto Rican and . . .) Free Zone, that’s what draws them there, though they’d never admit it, the hypocrites.  It’s the schools, and the quality of life (cough), etc.  The New Hampshire that might have given Paul a solid protest vote is rapidly disappearing and again racial politics are at the heart of the change.

Ron Paul has been a voice in the wilderness for over
30 years and has never given up.  He still hasn’t given
up.  Use him as an inspiration.  That is what makes
him a LEADER.

There was never any way Ron Paul could be the Republican nominee that didn’t require him to win in New Hampshire.  Now that we’ve established he has zero chance to be the GOP nominee, yet he has all that money left (and quite possibly the potential to raise a good deal more, plus a massive cadre of supporters), my hope is that he’ll run as a third party or independent candidate.  At least then, he can ensure that whichever neo-con stooge wins the nomination will never get to be President.  That’s the only way paleo-cons, libertarians, and other rational elements (including people like Jared Taylor, quite frankly) are ever going to make any headway in this political system of ours; we’ve got to be willing to spoil the electoral dreams of the RNC.  Let’s force the Republicans to lose every Presidential election (and other races as well), until they run a candidate acceptable to us!  Hell, even that might not work, but its a better idea than any others I’ve heard.

A major positive that is coming out of the Paul campaign is that the complicit media/industrial military complex is being exposed as the criminals that they are.  Ron Paul pulling 10% is remarkable considering the money and influence alligned against him.  If he received anywhere close to a fair shake from the media he most likely would have locked this thing up by now.  Imagine a candidate that can stand on his record rather than run from it.  He is being outspent by tens of millions and the other bought candidates are receiving what is conservatively hundreds of millions in free publicity.  I personally think the vote most likely has been compromised but I won’t give up hope.  I will fight on and paint the town Ron for Super Tuesday.  What the Ron

sorry, typo.  meant to delete that last sentence.  can’t see what I’m typing.

@Kevin Riley OKeefe,

I wouldn’t be so sure who Ron Paul running as an independant helps.  I think that the Republican and Democrat front runners will be barely discernable and will leave the only true American alone with his hardcore constituency.  Ron Paul has a number of followers, myself included, who are only registered Republican.  I haven’t voted Republican since Ronald Reagan.  If there is a poor voter turnout I could see Ron Paul pulling 20% or more in the popular election.  We should hope for a Bloomberg candidacy to split the neo-con vote.  I am voting for Ron Paul if I have to write him in.

When Pat Buchanan first ran for national office (1992), I was dismayed that he turned down the offer of the American Taxpayers Party to be their candidate; instead he continued to waste precious dollars in the Republican primary.  Isn’t there a party that could offer Rep. Paul the spot as their candidate?  Why do real conservatives remind me of the “misunderstood” artists who used to inhabit Greenwich Village, who preferred losing to winning, so that they could enjoy a superior feeling without having to deal with success?  Scott McConnell explained to me that Pat had difficulty separating himself from the Republican Party.  Was that really the problem?  Maybe Richard Nixon realized that Buchanan was at heart a loser.  Even Howard Roark got tired of sitting around doing nothing.

Huckabee raised taxes with 46% in Arkanzas, and did consequently not nearly double them. For that he would of course have had to raise them close to 100%. Sorry for that mistake.

update from when I reported zero votes in Sutton.

The Town Clerk Sutton is now saying there were 31 votes for Ron Paul there and we’re not reported due to human error.  LOL, there were only 386 votes total for Rep’s there.  Sorry about the early number of 20 voters, just was what I had read.  I’m taking a look at the town of Albany in Carroll County, there were 131 total Rep votes there of which 39 went to “other”, that smells.

Ron Paul got his ass waxed and it was predictable he would. Nobody like Paul is EVER gong to win an election in these United States and the idea it was even possible he could win or make a serious challenge was, sadly, seriously entertained by those whose knowledge of history ought to have told them otherwise.

Magical thinking does not advance the cause of liberty one bit and the fact so many were swept away in the enthusiasm is a very bad sign.

When magical thinking began capturing the intellects of so many on my side, I knew how right I was to anticipate the easily predictable outcome and just how much trouble our side is in.

Those engaged in the magical thinking must not ever look at the TV news or listen to Rush or Beck or any of the other “conservative” chatterers who are SO popular with the rest of our countrymen.

Did Paul even get 10% of the vote?

If he did, in what way is that a victory or even a sign of hope?

As to where does he go from here? He goes no where and he arrives there rapidly.

“Non sum Spartacus”, I believe you and I are about the only two people that “get it” around here, regarding Ron Paul.

I am not Spartacus is unfortunately correct.  If Ron Paul could not get even 10% of the vote in libertarian friendly New Hampshire, it is hard to see how he will break into double digits anywhere.

I would guess that Ron Paul got at least 10% of the vote in new Hampshire.  There have been numerous accounts coming out of New Hampshire that there is need for a recount.  In the twonships where they did hand balloting Ron Paul came in well over 10 % and as high as 34% in one township.

Dr. Zmirak:

You do certainly have a point.

New Hampshire’s primary elections have been a reminder that the masses do not necessarily choose liberty.

We have been reminded of Hoppe, who stands on the shoulders of the Knight of Lans (EvKL) and Bertrand de Jouvenel.

We are reminded that popular government will not choose liberty just because it gets the chance.

In spite of all theory about the vices of popular government, there is nothing in all this theory that says that Dr. Paul cannot win. There are factors
working heavily against him, but there is no absolute rule saying he cannot make it.

I basically do not reject what the Knight of Lans, Bertrand de Jouvenel, and Hans-Hermann Hoppe have said about democracy.

I say do not give up hope.

I say keep up the fight for the candidate who wishes to end the Wilsonian world order and bring small, limited government at home.

“Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all.” -Dale Carnegie

@Andrew Capp

The point that I wanted to make is that Libertarians
are so busy worrying about the power of the Big Bad
State that they fail to take into account the power of
the local strongman without anything to check him.

There is a reason why States grew, and that was because
they were an improvement over the rule of local strongmen,
or warlords, or whatever.

You could call company town what you may want, but the
fact is that people that lived there were subject to
the rule of the unelected owners of the company, and were
cut off from the rule of law of the US by the fact that
a) they wer paid in scrip, which they could only spend
at the company store - no competition for better prices
allowed and b) the police force were hired by the company
owners, not the community, and the law they enforced ws
whta the company owners wanted to enforce.  Meditate
on that.

Bad as it is, the rule of a powerful, distant ruler can
be easier to bear than the rule of a local strongman who
can be quite capricious, is always close, and does not
allow any appeal.

By the way, I am leaving this group.  I am getting tired
of the lack of realism of Ron Paul’s supporters. I mean
accept that he has no traction and wonder why it is so.

Life is too short to squander in pipe dreams. Also to
squander fighting old battles over and over. Lincoln own,
the Confederacy lost. The South will not rise again.

The Civil Rights had to be passed and unwillingness to
accept it has cut you off from a sizeable section of the
population who have conservative values but do not take
kindly to being despised.

Hitler had to go, whatever FDR’s faults, and they were
many, he had the sense to see it, and act.

I am so tired of arguing it, and the eternal diatribes
about that nineteenth century Darwinian artifact, the
theory of race. 

It is too much to put up with, in the hope of being albe
to run acroos a fellow John Lukacs enthusiast.

So, bye, bye.

Reading Mr. Zmirnak and the various posts, I am amazed that the American revolution ever took place with this bunch of cowards and defeatists. Andy Capp prefers the corrupt Mexican politician and Not Spartacus likes to sit on the sidelines making sneering remarks. The Ron Paul movement can do without “fair weather friends”.
It took the socialists and their capitalist overlords over 100 years to change the mindset of the American voter from the ideas of the founding fathers to the acceptance of serfdom. Who in their right mind expects a complete turnaround in one election?
Here is another take on the New Hampshire results:
Compared to the results the same ideas and the same man got in 1988, I think the movement (and I was part of it already then) made a big step forward.
The people who voted for Ron Paul are substantially different from the rest of the voters, smaller in quantity, but better in quality. If the rules of the founding fathers would still be in effect, (only self sufficient, property owning males), Ron would have captured the primary. He scored 150% better among men than among women! Another sign of the smarts of Jefferson & Cie.
On the other side, the Hillary, Edwards and Obama voters are people, who want to vote benefits to themselves out of the public treasury – a process otherwise known as theft. I for one have no desire to be in the same movement with them. They will be just a burden on the movement.
The people who are supporting the warmongering group (Guiliani et al), are either feeding at the public trough by producing the goods for war, or benefitting from it otherwise. Then there are the yahoos, who look at the live transmission of the suffering of others (look at the “beauty” of precision guided bombing, etc.) as a good form of entertainment (live snuff movies courtesy of Fox News), or are so scared of life, that they do not mind being treated like cattle. If I have to go to battle, I would not want to have any of them on my side either.
Most of these people are beyond redemption and remind me of the people I met in East Germany after the fall of the wall. No fighting spirit left for life.
However, the Ron Paul people are young, intelligent, and enthusiastic. Those are the attributes necessary for the long term “re-education process” that needs to be waged to free the American people.
If the movement manages to capture the GOP from the neocons, they will have the appropriate platform to bring their message to the masses. It may take another 20 years, but I am thinking about the future of my children, so it surely is worth a try.
I am not saying that this will be easy and that those that live happily off an enslaved America would give up their loot easily. And they do have the all the propaganda tools that the Ron Paul movement lacks. But in a battle of ideas, in the end the better one wins.
How long did it take Christianity to take hold?

@ Werner Hoermann

Well said!

I’m afraid Dr Paul will need to be more focused on pedagogically explaining his messages. It is not that people are stupid or cowardly, but that a radical change needs much more “anchoring” in the minds of most people.

Why is it so good to lessen the power of the state? Why should we get rid of the Medicare, IRS and Department of Education? Why really? After all, they all do some good, or don’t they? And what will we replace them with? Will we be on our own? Each man on his own. What if we stumble and fall? Will anyone be there to pick us up?

I think Ron Paul’s campaign needs to draw a picture of the future that is graspable for everyone.

Adriana, if you’re still with us, who is rooting for Hitler here? I haven’t noticed any such tendencies. Or do you mean that we too speak in codes?

Yes, that’s a possibility… Or maybe you’re being a bit too paranoid. Dr Strangelove was a fictional character. Nazis under the age of 90 are hard to find nowadays. Lessen the impression and you’ll feel much better.

Wait a second.

I prefer the corrupt Mexican politicians?

Talk about a smear job!

Never, not ONCE have I said I prefer Mexico’s politicians over the USofA’s!

As a matter of fact, I detest them both.

Herr Hoermann slanders me.  Typical.

I do admit, however, of preferring the traditional culture of Mexico over the Revolutionary culture of the USofA.  I would prefer the USofA’s traditional culture over Mexico’s traditional culture, that is, if the USofA’s traditional culture still existed.  It doesn’t.  The last bit of it was surrendered in 1865.

“a sizeable section of the
population who have conservative values but do not take kindly to being despised.”

You mean the type of people who follow Jared Taylor because they are tired of being robbed, raped, murdered, insulted, assaulted and scapegoated because of the color of their skin?

@Adriana:

Are you familiar with the term ‘curia’, and its meaning in the later Roman Empire?

No? Well, what happened to Rome was, that on the one hand Imperial policies destroyed the economy (debasing the currency, slavery, subsidy, monopoly, the usual), and at the same time, the empire demanded more and more revenue to sustain itself. The ‘curia’ were a social class who were forced into servitude to the empire because there livelihoods had been destroyed. So, their new job description was to screw as much wealth out of whoever was left that was still productive and turn it over to the empire/state, in return for which service they would receive a miserly cut. Now, in this environment, as a taxpayer, you’d start looking for a better deal. You see where it’s going here.

The state didn’t so much collapse as it ended up feeding on any remnant of productive activity that was going on within its reach. And the productive elements turned to the warlords because paying local protection was better than destitution.

So, contrary to Adriana, feudalism did arise precisely because the state became so overwhelmingly confiscatory. Signing up for serfdom seemed like a good deal. And it actually *was* a good deal because feudal serfs enjoyed many more rights than did citizens in the late Roman Empire. Moreover, when they didn’t like what their local lord was up to, they often had the opportunity to switch, like when the Spanish dumped the Vandals for the Moors.

So Adriana is going to leave us because we Ron Paul supporters don’t realize what a blessing war and big distant government are?  If only.  In the words of Arnold Schwartzenegger in Terminator 3, “She’ll be back.”

I suspect Adriana’s “retirement” is the same as John Ball’s.

@ Capp,

Aw, you’re gonna make me cry in my pillow all night.

I stand by my decision not to submit any more articles to this site, one which fulfills an important role but one with whose editorial policies I have too many differences to write for.  Commenting in order to assist in building up a more ample - and more diverse - conservative resistance to Cultural Marxists and neocons, is another matter.  If those of us who are trying to resist creeping barbarism refuse to have ANY dialogue with those with whom we disagree, without any sense of nuanced partial disagreement, then we’ll remain impotent.

My refraining from publishing anymore on this site is an expression of my partial disagreement with its editorial policies.  My continuing participation in its discussions is an expression of shared concerns and considerable agreement with many of its writers and commenters, for some of whom - including especially John Zmirak - I have continued to express unreserved admiration regardless of occasional disagreements.  Even real enemies in wartime are able to respect each other personally, or at least real warriors do, so how much more ought people like me and Zmirak and Boyd Cathey etc be able to carry on some discussions and occasional expressions of friendship (and fun) regardless of a few passionate points of disagreement?

Now maybe this thread ought to get back to John Zmirak’s topic?

Not Spartacus likes to sit on the sidelines making sneering remarks

Mr. Hoermann. I am not worthy of the Paulites. That is for certain. All I do is remember recent history and observe what is actually happening.

And I don’t sneer. I scowl.

Magical thinking and the self-flattery of the true-believer appear to be required traits to be thought a member of your non-existent movement.

So, I am delighted you have excluded me and others. And I am not in the least surprised you are reading me out of a non-existent movement that I never joined. Your inflated idea of who you are and your wrong-headed ideas there is such a thing as a Paul movement tell me all I need to know about you and your ilk. Y’all are out of touch with reality and are proving me correct about the dangers of movements anchored in enthusiasm.

I was here LONG before Paul rang-up his monumental 8% in New Hampter. We Vermont Cranks may not be many but we are out here. And occasionally a Harry Browne, a Howard Phillips, or a Ron Paul, comes along and we dutifully support them while shunning the psychotic atmospherics that you swear by.

No hard feeling on my part, Mr. Hoermann. But, as a realist, I am not your cup of meat.

Goodbye to politics, sure… national politics, anyway. Paul’s campaign was banking on a “Perfect Storm” of events to enable a minority to get through the system and win. This “Perfect Storm” never quite came together, and unless there’s a miracle during the coming primaries, the conditions that might be favorable to such a storm have passed, and won’t be around again for a long, long, time.

When the Empire collapses from its own bloated weight, though, people are going to look for local leadership. Supporters of freedom will need to be there, at the local leadership level, to step up when that time comes. This doesn’t mean we should get involved in elections and campaigns per se, but we should focus on leadership within our communities, and on monitoring and challenging the people who do get elected. Monitor the local school board, ensure public awareness over any new legislation that passes at the state capital, and most of all do your day jobs well- nobody listens to a known incompetent.

(For the record, I still say Paul supporters should carry through with the 2008 campaign at full effort as a matter of principle, and because a stronger showing sends a message, however weak).

re Non-Spartacus’ “No hard feeling on my part, Mr. Hoermann. But, as a realist, I am not your cup of meat.”

...Several months ago I tangled here with Herr Hoermann over his comment that the Nazis were trying to defend Western Christian civilisation (or words to that effect, I can’t be bothered to look it up.)

If Herr Hoermann wonders why the Ron Paul movement has not attracted as many conservative supporters - including hard core ANTI-NEOCONS LIKE ME - he can look in the mirror.  Agreed, Ron Paul has been smeared and it’s unfair to equate his views with those of his fringe neo-nazi and White Nationalist supporters, but he and his supporters ought to have been a lot more careful about what kind of flies they have attracted from the fringes.  Similarly, my main point of disagreement with Takimag’s editorial policy has been on one, and only one point:  publishing an article by the loathsome Jared Taylor whose rag, “American Renaissance” obsesses over race and DNA.  And on that note, “let me make one thing perfectly clear” (in the words of the almost-great Richard Nixon :-):

I do believe “race” exists, at least in the minds of men.  I do believe “race” is significant in American and European politics, willy nilly.  But as Churchill said about antisemitism, “it might be a good starter, but it’s always a bad finisher,” meaning that the germ of truth in racial concerns and concerns about excessive Jewish and/or Israeli power, inevitably open up the doors to all kinds of scum to hijack honourable discourses and then lead them astray into fever-swamps of hatred.

Meanwhile, planet Earth (our gift from God) is literally burning and all life on earth is in imminent danger of extinction through the folly of Man, through Man’s idolatrous worship of technology and “economics”.  Ron Paul and his movement have done almost nothing to address THAT peril! 

Maybe if the movement which has coalesced around Dr Paul would talk less about “race” and more about defending the ancient blessing of the Land, it might - in the near future, we can hope? - attract many more traditional conservatives, the kind who care more about defending the Land than about
“defending” any “race”.  I am one, my friend John Lukacs is another, and the good farmer/agrarian Wendell Berry in Kentucky is another, and I think Mr Non-Spartacus is yet another.  And there are more of us out there, scattered but not insignificant, who recoil from (what we perceive as) excessive concern with “race” and DNA, equally as much as we recoil from disregard for the continuing rape of Planet Earth, of which God has made us stewards.

Just proffering some food for thought.

@ Andrew Capp
I apologize if I have misread your preference for living in Mexico over the US as a preference for the Mexican political discourse. Considering the substantial influence politics have nowadays over the quality of life, I was under the impression that you prefer the political scene and players as well. I apologize if I misread that. So what are you doing to improve the Mexican political scene?
@ I am not Spartacus
Your constant put-down of the idealism and drive the Ron Paul supporters display, certainly came in my dictionary over as a sneer rather than a scowl, but then English is only my second language and I take your lesson in the accurate meaning of English verbs with thanks. That you are not a supporter of constitutionality and the other ideas that Ron Paul is the leading promoter of, is well taken, so I am just wondering whose or what stances are more in line with your political and philosophical preferences?
@John Ball
Are you Abe Foxman’s watchdog at this blog? I never voiced anything to the extent that Adolf Hitler (may his name live in infamy – good enough?), defended Western civilization. But I pointed out that he used it as a sales argument to come to power and that many Germans fell for it, which prompted you to go on a rant and call me and my forbearers a “sack of shit”. Real classy discourse! And you wonder why other contributors are not unhappy of your repeatedly announced departure?
So who or what brought into the discussion of the New Hampshire primary results the issue of race and anti-semitism? It certainly was not anything on the Republican or Ron Paul’s side. Not even on the Democrat side anybody bothers to talk about Obama’s race, except perhaps himself and Oprah. It is a non-issue. You on the other hand seem to be obsessed with it.
Then you try to smear me with a “racist” label. There is nothing in my background or opinion that would qualify as that. I am married to a wonderful Mexican woman, have therefore “mestizo” kids (how about that Andy Capp?) and racism is certainly not anything anybody can accuse me of. John, you should look into the mirror and let go of your anti-Germanic racism, which you feel free to voice in your posts.

Alright, Herr Hoermann, you have provoked me to look up your comment (on Takimag) to which I referred:

“When the question came to enter the war on the side of the German civilization (and by this I mean the Beethoven and Goethe civilasation) and not the depravity coming out of Weimar’s Berlin, or the culture destroying, church burning and mass murdering communism, America chose to enter the war on the side of Stalin...”

http://www.takimag.com/site/article/the_german_disease

Don’t ever underestimate my photographic memory, Herr Hoermann.

In THAT commment, YOU EQUATED “German civilisation” (which, to all decent men, is insepearable from Christian Civilisation) - YOU equated
“German Civilisation” (which I SAY is INSEPARABLE FROM CHRISTENDOM), YOU equated “German Civilisation” with Hitler’s Germany, and there is no way for you to wiggle out of this.

And regarding your un-gentlemanly (and ill-informed) words to me:  “John, you should look into the mirror and let go of your anti-Germanic racism, which you feel free to voice in your posts.”

...I am almost half-German, as I have often told stories about on this site.
My maternal grandmother’s grandfather, George Yost, was an immigrant from Darmstadt, who became a Sergeant in Lincoln’s Army and fought honourably and was wounded at Chancellorsville, Gettysburg and Cold Harbor.  My mother’s father was the son of a converted German Jew and an Austrian Catholic.  And let me tell you what is MOST GERMAN IN ME:

My great-grandfather, Wilhelm Koeplin (of Berlin) was a Christian of Jewish blood, who fought a duel with a German Army officer who insulted him for being of Jewish blood.  My great-grandfather fled to America after killing that antisemitic AND ANTI-GERMAN creep, who was anti-German because he did not respect all true and loyal sons of Germany, such as my (Christian, son of a Jew) great-grandfather was.

You think I’m “anti-Germanic?” I cannot be “anti-Germanic” without hating and destroying my own body and ancestors and posterity.  My roots in Germany - like Paul Gottfrieds - go back for thousands of years, including some real Jews of the diaspora as well as ancient German blood mixed in our families.  (My German, half-"Jewish" grandfather had blonde hair and blue eyes, as I do not have; my hair is reddish-brown and my eyes are dark green, more “Aryan” than Hitler or Himmler, mind you...)

I cannot hate Germany any more than I could ever hate my own body which is descended from Germans, going back for thousands of years.

But I DO hate all liars and disseminators of hatred, of whom, evidently, Herr Hoermannn is one.

“Jewish blood”?

Being a Talmudist isn’t a race, but a religion.

The “Hebrew race” is lost to history.

God took care of them in 70 and 135 AD, by way of the Roman Empire.

Also, I don’t live in Mexico, I live in northeast Alabama.  I don’t even speak that good of Spanish (German is my second langauge, Spanish a distant third).

@ Capp,

Your dearth of charity and generosity impresses me ALMOST as much as John Zmirak’s extraordinary charity and generosity does.

Capp, you creep, you said about the Jews (from whom our luminary Professor Paul Gottfried is a descendant):

“God took care of them in 70 and 135 AD, by way of the Roman Empire.”

No, God didn’t “take care of (by which you meant, destroyed) the Jews.  God’s promise to all Children of Abraham is eternal.

Capp, you might call yourself a “Catholic” and a “Christian”, but your expressed dearth of charity says something else about you.

@SS Ball (Squire Square Ball)

On Churchill, I quote from David Irving’s “Churchill’s War”: Volume One –

“In 1920 Mr. Churchill [age 46] had published in one Sunday newspaper an article about ‘the schemes of the International Jews,’ in which he had warned against the ‘the adherents of the sinister confederacy,’ and called them a ‘world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society.’ By the 1930s all such ugly phrases had been tailored out of his writings.”

Now let’s jump to 1938.  Sir Winnie had been living well beyond his means.  In financial straits, Churchill is about to put up for sale his family estate.  Quoting from Irving:

“We can imagine with what bitterness he now asked ‘The Times’ to advertise his beloved Chartwell for sale.  The advert would appear on the second day of April, inviting offers of £20,000.  A few days before that date, on March 28, 1938, he was saved.  Bracken’s [Brendan Bracken, MP] South African friend Sir Henry Strakosch, the Gold mining millionaire and chairman of Union Corporation Ltd., agreed to pay off Churchill’s debts.  Strakosch was a Jew born in Moravia, Czechoslovakia.  Chartwell was withdrawn from the market, and Churchill campaigned on.”

Irving cites much more with respect to Churchill’s compromised relationship with the Jewish community. Honor?  Nonsense!  Churchill had long since sold his honor (if he ever had any) for a few shekels.  It was all about fulfilling his overweening ambition at any price.

John Ball upbraiding Andy Capp for a lack of charity, rich stuff.  It’s like that shop worn quip of Kissinger’s regarding the war between Iran and Iraq “Why can’t they both lose?”

<<No, God didn’t “take care of (by which you meant, destroyed) the Jews.>>

Funny how the only Temple there has been for almost 2,000 years is the Body of Christ.

Face it, the Hebrew people were scattered when they were no longer needed.  Salvation is of the “Jews”, but today that Salvation is of the Church, the New Israel.

Once again, there is no “Jewish race” that can be verified.  There are Talmudists and Karaites.  None of whom are of the Tribe of Judah.

How that makes me a “bad Catholic” is beyond me.

@John Ball
To display my citation of somebody else’s argument as an endorsement is really a stretch and to continue to do so despite my repeated clarifications is intellectually dishonest and a smear. If you got nothing but baseless accusations of racism and anti-Semitism, no matter what the topic of discussion is, to contribute, I suggest you stop wasting your time sending posts. I for one will not bother to read them. And since you have a propensity to interpret, because of my ethnicity, things into my posts that are not there, you should ignore my postings as well. There simply is no way of pleasing you.
As another commenter suggested, it may be useful to put the name of the sender on top of the post, so that it is easier to skip comments that are meaningless drivel.

One John Lukacs fan here!

The New Hampshire primary rather than a point to turn back and quit can be our finest moment.  The weak and fearfull will no doubt despair.  That is their inclination and nature which the mainstream media hope will thin our ranks.  We can make this moment into something truly historic as that new day dawns and they find us bloodied but unbowed and willing to soldier on for the long haul.  Mr. Hoerrman is correct.  This won’t happen overnight but we must take our victorys where we can. It is not going unnoticed that the media have alligned themselves against Ron Paul.  What they try to slander and smear as a fring movement is becoming more obviously a much larger discontent with this society.  Let us show them that the Grinch may have stolen our Christmas but let us now with our continued effort turn the Grinch’s small heart and cause it to expand so that he can love his fellow man.

@ “FoSquare” (who is still too cowardly to use his real name here):

As soon as I saw you quoting from the Nazi sack of shit, David Irving, I stopped reading your comment and then vomited.

And some of you wonder why your “movement” and Ron Paul didn’t attract MORE old-fashioned conservatives.

Go figure.  Go figure while you read VDare and American Renaissance etc etc.

Go figure.

John Ball, can you explain to me why you seem to consider your bilious diatribes attractive to anyone of any stripe?  I mean really you use a pounds worth of powder when a pennies worth would do and with the kind of consistency that a metronome would envy.

No one wonders why our movement didn’t attract more old fashioned conservatives.  All real conservatives are supporting Ron Paul.  Who else would they be supporting?  Let me hear of some ohter candidate that they are supporting and how that candidate’s views resemble conservatism.

As for Ron Paul not disavowing racists and anti-semites sufficiently see this link,

http://www.jews4ronpaul.org/advisors.html

You will find our own Paul Gottfried on the board of directors.

That should read advisors not directors.

Mr. Ball. Well said. Kudos. There are men like me and thee out here. And we do identify the best candidate in each election cycle.

And there are even times when a Browne, Phillips, Buchanan, or Paul comes along and we go the extra mile and do what we can to assist the liberty moment they represent.

But far too many who engage the moment are suffused with such enthusiasm that they become unbalanced and incapable of hearing or reading anything that will deflate their self-adulatory political participation and,so, one who offers a note of caution, context, or reality is automatically dismissed as a movement heretic;which is a brilliant and unique way to grow a movement; but this is still America the pure :)

Your constant put-down of the idealism and drive the Ron Paul supporters display,

It may well be a language problem. I did not put-down the idealism and drive. I specifically mentioned any movement- religious or political - anchored in enthusiasm is bound to fail.

That you are not a supporter of constitutionality and the other ideas that Ron Paul is the leading promoter of, is well taken,

From what? That is an idea so idiotic and divorced from reality that it could serve as one of Bill Kristol’s columns.

Do you even read what I write?

At not Spartacus,

You say that we are trying to keep our movement too pure, John Ball says we have not done enough to discredit Nazi’s or in other words make our movement pure enough.  That Ron Paul has inspired many new to the voting process is indeed true.  To suggest that we do no know the fight we are in is beyond condescending.  Gee Mr. Spartacus, wish I was just so wordly and urbane as you are .  I couldn’t tell for my own simple self that with the mainstream media actively blacking out everything we do, vote rigging, and ouright slander that it was going to be a tough uphill battle.

@spartacus
How should one interpret your post
“Nothing will survive his candidacy. There will be no program or structure to survive him. In the future, some other no-real-prospect-politician will pick-up the mantle of liberty and there will be another brief parade of true-beleivers bound for the short hike into oblivion”. other than a statement that Ron Pauls message of adherance to the constitution is not your cup of tea?
Maybe I misunderstood you, but you certainly don’t make it easy to figure out where you stand.

Dear John, Sid, and other friends I made here.

I did not want to leave here without saying goodbye.

I enjoyed discussing with you, it is just that arguing
the same points over and over it taking too much of my
energy, and I wonder what’s the point.

It would not matter if I thought that it was going
somewhere, and it was doing any good, but I have come
to doubt it. The last straw were the efforts to construe
the Paul numbres in the Iowa and NH as a victory of
sorts.  Somehow I do not argue well with those who have
only a glancing knowledge of reality.

But if anyone of you want to continue our discussions,
my e-mail address is

(this is my own private address).

Hope to hear from you again.

To all you naysayers out there do you think after this country has bankrupted itself on wars, etc, that Ron Paul and his supporters won’t have the opportunity to say I told you so?  Of course we will.  But rather than just sit around saying I told you so we are trying to do something about it.  We are educating people every day on the dangers inherent in giving up their freedsoms to a war on terror.  Quit working for Ron Paul?  Because we didn’t get what we wanted in New Hampshire? Not me.  I love a fight, especially when the other guy is a lot bigger than me.  This is just getting to be fun.

Good News:  The NH vote will be recounted.

That is great news Bill W.  Where did you read that?

All the missionaries of doom and gloom ought bear in mind that Ronald Reagan wasn’t elected in 1976, when he first ran, but he TRIUMPHED in 1980. Ron Paul 2012!

Mr. Hoermann. I am sure it is my fault. I love and revere the Constitution and proudly proclaim it as our rule of law.

The men I mentioned thought similarly and that is why I voted for them. There are a not insignificant number of men around like me who long predated the Paul phenomenon and we will still be here long after those swept-up in the enthusiasm have passed by us telling us to move over.

C’est la vie

If a Paul movement survives this election cycle it will be so insignificant that it will be barely noticeable.

I write that with no delight. I am one who loves The Constitution, Federalism, Liberty, and The Catholic Church (not in that order.)

wish I was just so wordly and urbane as you are .

Mr. Nucci. I am just a Vermont Crank. I ain’t nobody of importance and I have never imagined I am someone I am not. Urbane? LOL The Bride would love that one

@ I am not Spartacus,

Ok. Fair enough.

press release on the NH recount:

http://www.nbc11.com/politics/15028550/detail.html

The term “feudalism” is being used here with about as much accuracy as most folk use the term “fascism.”

I.e., it simply means “I don’t like it.”

Or as Humpty Dumpty said, “words mean what I want them to mean at the moment I use them; a week from now, I will use the same word with a different meaning.”

Seriously, you need to read at least one book about medieval history before you use a term like “feudalism.”

“John Ball, can you explain to me why you seem to consider your bilious diatribes attractive to anyone of any stripe?”

Why do you think I care about my comments (or articles which have been published here) being “attractive” to anyone at all?  Do you think Taki gives a damn whether HIS (brilliantly) bilious essays are “attractive”?

Now you’re gonna make me cry in my pillow.  I’m not attractive.  Awwww…