As always, good on you, Professor Gottfried!  The current huffing and puffing over Russia from our Lords NeoCon has more to do with their ignorance of history and understanding of the Slavic peoples AND their overriding desire to usher back in the Cold War.  Because it was during that period, after all, that their power and influence reached its acme.

At the risk of being blackballed from this website, forever I am going to cite two articles from the National Review. Yes, I admit that I do read this neocon propaganda, if only to inspire myself with anger. But Krauthammer did offer an interesting analysis today:

The Finlandization of Georgia would give Russia control of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which is the only significant European-bound route for Caspian Sea oil and gas that does not go through Russia. Pipelines are the economic lifelines of such former Soviet republics as Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan that live off energy exports. Moscow would become master of the Caspian basin.

Victor Davis Hanson wrote something the other day on that also caught my eye. I will attempt to paraphrase:

In international relations, there are three modes of power and influence. Hard Power, Soft Power, and Power-Power. This latter concept refers to energy which is quickly becoming the most salient global issue of the century.

What’s my point in bringing this up? Energy matters. For our security and prosperity, it very much matters. The Georgia Issue is thus very much our business, and until we escape our dependency upon foreign oil, anything to do with energy will be our business.

Power-Power smells like the Intersate Commerce Clause.  If anything that influences the economy is cause to interevent then there is never a reason not to intervene as everything in some way influences the economy.

As far as I can tell, the Russians are not demanding back all of Georgia but coming to
the aid of pro-Russian secessionists in one corner of this newly independent country.
Moreover, if the US and Russia have conflicting material interests, then this should be
dealt with as such. Calling Putin a Nazi and Russia a kleptocracy may make pasty-faced
neocons feel more manly but it does nothing to resolve concrete geopolitical differences
As for Mr. Lyttle’s predilection for neocon rhetoric, de gustibus non disputandum.
Personally I prefer boxing matches.

The reality is Russia is actually more European than Europe and is surprisingly more likely to be the guardian of Christendom than Western Europe. Putin has done for Russians what Reagan did for Americans in the 1980s - economic revival and reverence for Russia’s historical traditions, particularly its Orthodox faith, have made Russians proud again. Hats off too them. The US/Nato provocation of Russia rivals the Iraq war in its utter stupidity. The majority of the American right has never been more lost. How depressing.

Dr. Gottfried,

“As far as I can tell, the Russians are not demanding back all of Georgia but coming to
the aid of pro-Russian secessionists in one corner of this newly independent country.
Moreover, if the US and Russia have conflicting material interests, then this should be
dealt with as such.”

You’re right, Dr. Gottfried. I had forgotten how noble Putin and the Russians are. I am sure this invasion was driven by humanitarian concerns. Just like our invasion of Iraq.

Chris,

The BTC pipeline cuts an arc thru the south of Georgia, below Tbilisi.  There is another pipeline, the Baku-Supsa, which runs north of Tbilisi but still below Ossetia and Abkhazia.  Unless you see Russia occupy the whole of Georgia and man the very spigots themselves, I think fixation on this pipeline is misplaced.

For that matter, what’s to stop Georgia itself from extracting tariffs of one million, one billion, nay, one trillion dollars from oil passing thru the pipeline?  The answer, of course, is that the Georgians are constrained by market forces.  Obsession over who controls what oil betrays economic ignorance and warps foreign policy decisions.  These same arguments were trotted out when Saddam invaded Kuwait.  A dictator with all that oil!  But all the oil in the world is useless to its owner until it is sold to an end user.

I agree Mr. Gottfried, that it is none of our business in concept but it really is directly as a result of what our discredited government is up to all around the globe. It is our business for the simple reason that Bush and his feckless crew sent 1000 troops there just last month..... and God knows how much money in debt financed arms..... only to watch the Russians scoff at us and quickly inform us that our great mission of Democracy is a hypocritical front for far more insidious aims. The Russians were granted the priceless benefit of broadcasting on their television news the sight of stacks of shiny new American Arms they captured on their foray into a U.S. emboldened Georgia. Nice that we can provide our fresh arms, hot off the truck to the Russians. Nice that we can so easily be the brunt of jokes.

Far from being a diversion, the Olympics provided a fine and very public display of how utterly ridiculous and dysfunctional and foolhardy our government is and an opportunity for Putin to approach Bush directly and tell him exactly what he thought of “Operation Immediate Response” and our 1000 troops on his doorstep.

These boys intend to have their endless conventional wars and they will have them . It’s tag you’re it and the American civilian should watch closely and know that their turn in the cross fire will come soon enough and it will have been brought to them by it’s very own government.

At some point, if there are some sober minds still alive and functioning, it would be nice if they got up and had a little Howard Beele Moment. The American public has been fleeced and now it can become a joke. In Self-Destruction We Trust.

90+% of the population of South Ossetia voted 90+% for independence, but somehow Georgia is the fighter for democracy.

Red,

“ 90+% of the population of South Ossetia voted 90+% for independence, but somehow Georgia is the fighter for democracy.”

In 2042, 90+% of the population of California voted for independence, but somehow the United States is the fighter for democracy.

If 90% of california votes for independence let them go and they can take New England, New York City, and New Jersey with them.

Original Jack—Try thinking a little bit more inside the box. 

The rest of America needs free access to the ports found in California, New York, and
New Jersey. 

A number of paleocons have pointed out the hypocrisy of the Republican chattering class
in supporting Kosovar independence but not Ossetian independence.  But what of paleocon
hypocrisy in reversing their position in exactly the same manner?

Our regional Republican newspaper just arrived with all of its syndicated neocon
columnists. Jonah Goldberg chides Obama and Bush for not recognizing the threat to
all democracies everywhere being posed by Russia’s invasion of Georgian territory. The
only politician whom Goldberg is ready to praise for understanding
the Russian danger is of course McCain.

Not only should Kristol, Barnes, and the other “democratists” be concerned with the criminalization of “hate speech” in many Western democracies, and the predilection toward violence exhibited repeatedly by the “anti-fascists” and Muslim immigrants who have made them their dwelling places, they ought as well to say a thing or two about the disgraceful condition of “inner cities” in OUR democracy.  A move of this sort, however, is perilous to those who wish to preserve their standing in “polite society,” for criticisms aimed “the inner city” are have an inescapable, and unmistakable, racial component. 

This being so, I have zero expectations that our warriors for Democracy will ever see any closer than Russia or the Middle East.

Well Mr. Lyttle, you’re right that so long we are dependent on foreign oil, energy does affect our national security. But perhaps of antagonizing Russia, perhaps maybe we should join in alliance
with it along with Canada (a ture Northern Alliance) which would reduce our dependence
on Middle Eastern oil and our presence in that region and secure our energy needs for the
foreseeable future and would prevent pygmies like Misha from launching brutal attacks that
only wind up backfiring and causing great misery.

We could stablize Europe and the entire Near East by making an alliance with Russia.
We are natural allies. Why do people look at the Russians and only see an enemy? Escape
your Cold War/neocon prison and see the future instead of living out past hatreds.

@Chris Lyttle

You are a disgusting neo-con troll. Sod off back off to your pro-torture little friends at NRO!

The comparison is not between Ossetia and Kosovo, it is between the Serbian Krajina and Ossetia.  Massive ethnic cleansing in both cases was the desire of those launching the attacks (the Croats and Georgians, respectively) and provocation of Russia was the desire of their sponsor (the US in both cases).  Serbia proper, contrary to popular misperception, did not help the Krajina Serbs from being cleansed off of lands they had lived on for over half a millenium, much less mighty Russia.  The Ossetians and Abkhazians are fortunate to have the Russians take up arms.

As a perusal of the map will illustrate, and taking a long view, for a millennia, Russia has served as the bulwark against the Asian hordes and Muslims from the east and south. If she fails in that mission, what would become of Europe?

Rick,

As has Serbia been in the Balkans....

Ahh, but allying with Christian Serbs and Russians is so un-PC and to the dislike of neocons that it must be better to have allies like Bosnia, Albania, Kosova, Chechnya, and so forth.  I just wish all Americans could go visit Serbia and Russia and then spend some time inthe latter mentioned places.  Then I would ask each traveller to ask themselves:  (a) which place resembles your home or a place you can identify with, (b) which peoples feel like your friends, and (c) which peoples would you want to be your allies.

Contrary to the neocon playbook, it seems that democracies do go to war against each other after all, in this case.  And the potential neocon temptation to claim that Russia and South Ossetia are not real “liberal” democracies seems beside the point; liberals like Woodrow Wilson showed the same level of tolerance towards their anti-war critics as the autocratic democrat Putin has.

Would someone explain how Georgia ia a “Democracy” and Russia isn’t? Isn’t the President of Russia elected? Don’t they have a parliament? Can anyone provide the objective facts and not some snarky remark?

Thanks.

“The rest of America needs free access to the ports found in California, New York, and
New Jersey”

T, unless your name is “Legion”, which I strongly (and hopefully) doubt, how can you determine what the rest of America needs?  If you are a normal human being, you can at best decide what is best for yourself and to a lesser extent your family.
Why would not independent CA, NY, and NJ grant free access - good for everyones’ econ. I live in one of the states you named and would welcome secession, despite it being a ‘People’s Rep’. If any of the states mentioned decided to close their ports, would you insist on an invasion by centgov forces?  How would that differ with the noted states’ independence?  ST

The neo-cons vs. Putin.  Pissed at Putin because he got rid of the oligarchs who were, er, not ethnic Russians.  ‘Czar Putin’, we know what the Trotskyites did to the Czar and his family.  I’ll bet those little buggers fantasize about doing that to Putin and his family, I’ll bet it keeps them up at night.  Oh, how they can nurse a grudge, for millenia even.

Every time they think they have whitey buggered he keeps coming back.  Stubborn whitey, bad whitey.  Why can’t whitey just stagger on toward the grave like was planned?

If Putin can get those ethnic Russian birth rates above replacement level he is cooking with gas.  Stubborn whitey, bad whitey.

And the potential neocon temptation to claim that Russia and South Ossetia are not real “liberal” democracies seems beside the point; liberals like Woodrow Wilson showed the same level of tolerance towards their anti-war critics as the autocratic democrat Putin has.

Wilson had critics and dissidents bumped off?

Who did Putin even run against in the last election? How much freedom of the press is there in Russia?

As far as I can tell, Russia is about as democratic as Iran, a country which also boasts of elections and “opposition parties”.

CC, you may be missing a major point.  The greatest sin in the eyes of the neocons may be the Russ centgov’s sale of arms to Mid-East countries to defend themselves against IDF depredation.  Used to think that Israel is the 51st state, but given the influence the Zionist lobby wields in the Den of Criminals, Israel is mor e like the 51st through 62nd states, an influential voting block with Reps and Senators unto itself.  ST

“Wilson had critics and dissidents bumped off?”
M, Wilson, Palmer, and the rest of the war-fever state turned the US into a quasi-police state.  Thousands were either jailed or intimidated, mail was opened and seized wholesale, and mobs were encouraged to assault usspected anti-war ‘traitors’.  Many were locked up for years, broken in health, and died as a result, such as Debs and the movie director whose patriotic film about the First American War of Secession was deemed ‘ an attack on US ally England”.

Who did Putin even run against in the last election? How much freedom of the press is there in Russia?

As far as I can tell, Russia is about as democratic as Iran, a country which also boasts of elections and “opposition parties”.

Given the two monsters we have as presidential candidates, the lapdog MSM that drools on their every word, two branches of the same party, the Warfare/Welfare Party, and US imperials massacring both here and abroad, you can sit there at your keyboard and type your comments with a straight face?  Sorry if I failed to perceive your statements are tongue-in-cheek.  The difference between Putin and our murderers in office is only one of degree, not of kind, and despite Putin’s mass-murder in Chechnya, the Russian has a lower body-count.  ST

Senor Doug and Jeff are both right. Perceived self-interest governs the actions of all nations’ centgovsMix of poltical and economic considerations.  The market worked during Yom Kippur War - restricted supply meant higher prices (the petrol station waiting lines were the result of US centgov bungling).  The mid-east oil embargo, led by erstwhile ally the Shah of Iran, could not last too long without OPEC nations experiencing internal overthrows in the face of revenue losses.  A return to constitutional gov with minimal market interference coupled with a neutral foreign policy would work best.  Let the oil companies fend for themselves overseas and keep the US centgov and American people out of the fray.  ST

I am getting so sick of the corny, infantile names chosen to represent our latest military adventures.  What moron thinks this stuff up? “Operation Immediate Response”.  I’m going to throw up.

The real threat that we all face is the Muslim demographic one. It is a threat that is insiduous and real, but impossible to talk about in “polite” circles, as it involves the very high birth rate Of Muslims, and our liberal policy of family unification.

We are faced with a Balknaisation of Europe, and even north America, in the not so distant future. So the problem that our Liberal/Left elite have created will be ignored, as it is too delicate to mention, and will be handed over to successive generations.

The real threat that we all face is the Muslim demographic one. It is a threat that is insiduous and real, but impossible to talk about in “polite” circles, as it involves the very high birth rate of Muslims, and our liberal policy of family unification. We are faced with a Balknaisation of Europe, and even north America, in the not so distant future. So the problem that our Liberal/Left elite have created will be ignored, as it is too delicate to mention, and will be handed over to successive generations.

Personally, I think that Russia, as a great power, has a perfect right to a sphere of
influence in the Caucasus - just as the U.S. has a right to one in Caribbean America.
I wish that an American president had had the guts to stamp on Castro and Chavez, and
read the riot act to Mexico on immigration, the way Putin has gone after Georgia.
I sympathize with the Georgian people, especially the women - it seems that the behavior
of the Russian Army has not improved much since 1945 - but the Georgians were living
in a dream world, and now are paying the penalty for their leadership’s fantasies.

Tom wrote, “Personally, I think that Russia, as a great power, has a perfect right to a sphere of
influence in the Caucasus - just as the U.S. has a right to one in Caribbean America.” This is the point I have been making as well, and I was pleased to see Buchanan make it too.  We need to reassert our position of respect in our own Hemisphere, not bother the Russians for doing so in their natural sphere of influence.

Thanks, Mr. MacGarr. Glad that I’m not totally off base here…
Anyway, don’t get me wrong - I like Georgians, wish them nothing but the best,
and indeed I wish that we could swap with Russia - I wish that Georgians were
pouring across our southern border, and Mexicans were getting run out by the
Red...er, Russian Army. But one has to deal with reality. As far as Russia is concerned,
the U.S. is a hostile power. It didn’t have to be that way, but in the aftermath of
the Cold War, we both made mistakes (thanks, Bill and Boris!) and that’s the way it is
now. The Russians saw us getting cozy with Georgia, and they acted - just the way we
should have in 1962,when Kennedy left Brigada 2506 to die on the beaches at the Bay of
Pigs, instead of sending in the Marines.That’s the way real great powers act. May the
war be short and as bloodless as possible - and may we re-learn the lessons of history,
soon. James Burnham, where are you when we need you?

Thanks, Mr. MacGarr. Glad that I’m not totally off base here…
Anyway, don’t get me wrong - I like Georgians, wish them nothing but the best,
and indeed I wish that we could swap with Russia - I wish that Georgians were
pouring across our southern border, and Mexicans were getting run out by the
Red...er, Russian Army. But one has to deal with reality. As far as Russia is concerned,
the U.S. is a hostile power. It didn’t have to be that way, but in the aftermath of
the Cold War, we both made mistakes (thanks, Bill and Boris!) and that’s the way it is
now. The Russians saw us getting cozy with Georgia, and they acted - just the way we
should have in 1962,when Kennedy left Brigada 2506 to die on the beaches at the Bay of
Pigs, instead of sending in the Marines.That’s the way real great powers act. May the
war be short and as bloodless as possible - and may we re-learn the lessons of history,
soon. James Burnham, where are you when we need you?

Tom and MG, how much taxpayer money and American lives are you will to spend for your foreign policy?  Are you willing to put your lives and lives of friends and family on the line?  How many foreigners are you willing to injure, kill, and dispossess for your sphere of influence?  Are you willing to admit that US meddling ins Cuba since the Spanish-American War has resulted in Castro, and that Castro would have been removed from office, Mussolini-style, years ago if we had not severed ties with Cuba in large part to benefit Cuban-American political/economic plutocrats? Castro would have been swinging from the end of a rope years ago if the US centgov had not embargoed Cuba for all of these years - punish the helpless population while the Castros and their followers become billionaires.When the head of state of another country displeased DC that gives the US war machine the green light to invade a country that has not threatened the US?  The US centgov has as much ‘right’ to Venezuelan oil as it does Mexican or Canadian petroleum - it can buy it at the price demanded or do without it and go somewhere else.  Or in the event that Mexico and Canada tighten their spigots would you sent the US military into those lands too?  Keep Mexican immigrants out by freely trading with them so that they do not come to the US so as not to starve or live in poverty, and end all US centgov welfare. Once the states had to pay for their own welfare programs you would see effective border control.  Given the political and economic condition of the US does DC have the right or the power to dictate any other country’s policies?  The Empire is broke.  ST

Democratic senator from NY Charles Shumer wrote in The Wall Street Journal ( Russia Can Be Part of Answer on Iran, June 3, 2008):
“To bring Putin’s Russia on board we must make it an offer it cannot refuse. The offer has three parts.
First, we must treat Russia as an equal partner when it comes to policy in the Caspian Sea region, recognizing Russia’s traditional role in the region. Second, we must offer to make Russia whole if it joins in our Iranian boycott and forgoes trade revenues with Iran. That will cost the U.S. roughly $2 billion to $3 billion a year, about what we spend in Iraq each week. Third, we should tell Mr. Putin we will cease building the ineffective antinuclear missile defense sites in Eastern Europe in return for him joining the boycott.
Two years ago, under NATO auspices, Poland, the Czech Republic and Romania agreed to build an antimissile defense site to thwart the threat of a nuclear missile attack by Iran. The threat is hypothetical and remote, and the Bush administration’s emphasis on pursuing the antimissile system, without Russia’s cooperation, still baffles many national security experts.
It also drives Mr. Putin to apoplexy. The antimissile system strengthens the relationship between Eastern Europe and NATO, with real troops and equipment on the ground. It mocks Mr. Putin’s dream of eventually restoring Russian hegemony over Eastern Europe.”

It seems that Dr Gottfried, Mr Buchanan (and very many other anti-Bush conservatives) are surprisingly (?) on the same track with late Mr Roosevelt, Mr Churchill and Comrade Stalin to whom all Eastern European countries were (and are and will be) no more than small change in their pocket.

Dr Gottfried is right that anti-national “antifascist” Left and forced open immigration are the real threat in Central Europe (and in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania – whether Dr Gottfried finds these nations worthy to be independent nation-states or not) but no more than the real Russian revanchism which works hand in hand with European Left – to the point where former socialdemocratic Chancellor of Germany Comrade Schröder and former PM of Finland Comrade Lipponen are on Putin’s payroll in Gazprom.

Being an Estonian, it’s hard for me to tell who directs the chorus constantly accusing Baltic states and other former Russian-ruled countries in “nationalism”, “neo-fascism” etc, European Left or Russia. And it doesn’t matter – their aims and methods are the same. But what matters is that the only country that hopefully supports Central and Easten Europe when we are in trouble, threatened by Russia, is the USA, no matter whether it is governed by neocons or someone else.

“Ahh, but allying with Christian Serbs and Russians is so un-PC and to the dislike of neocons that it must be better to have allies like Bosnia, Albania, Kosova, Chechnya, and so forth”

Last I checked, Eagle, Georgia was a Christian country with a giant cross on its flag.
So now we have the neocons supporting an Orthodox country.