There was a nice clip on the Daily Show of various pundits breaking down the various segments of the white vote. Hilary Supporters were the rainbow coalition, white, pale white, off white, cream, etc. The pictures were of are rural poor older women holding signs saying I ain’t voting for Barack HUSSEIN Obama. They insist Obama is a Moslem. They don’t like the colored boy apparently.

But these are also people who want big payouts from the Government. This is why Byrd keep getting re-elected. He even boasted of his Byrd droppings, highways to no-where, and federal offices plunked into no-where.

Would anyone have a link to the article mentioned?

Professor Gottfried,

As usual, great post.  A great strategy for us is to show that liberals aren’t nicer or more tolerant than us, they just have more positive feelings about politically correct groups.  They can rant as much as they want about those outside the victim box; white southerners, Christian conservatives, “racists” and “homophobes.”

It reminds me of an anthropology teacher I once had who tries to help Native American children perform as well as white children.  I raised my hand and told him that Jews and East Asians perform better than whites.  I asked why is that never considered a social problem?  Is it only a problem when whites are doing well?  He had a look on his face like his dog just died.  I could see that this man had a lot of intelligence hidden under his thirty years of studying critical theory and I made him think some very unpleasant thoughts.  Of course he had no answer and moved on, while the shocked PC hordes gasped in the background.

I could’ve brought up race and intelligence, but it was much easier and more effective to show the absurdities of PC logic, and what I believe are its ridiculous inconsistencies and overall immorality.

To Jupiter:
I am struck by your reference to Peter Brimelow as a supporter of training “China’s youth” for America’s best jobs.  Can you provide a source on this?  I thought that Brimelow (at least in his books “Patriot Game” and “Alien Nation") was a rightist along the lines of Sam Francis on issues like immigration and identity.  I am not offering a criticism here; I am just interested in Brimelow’s latest thinking on the subject.

At a political level, questions of race and genetics lead to a dead-end of exile and pariah-status, as many rightists have found out.  It is somewhat safer to discuss the effect of “culture” on intelligence, as the libertarian economist Tom Sowell has done.  Even in this vein, the right still must be careful.  The left is open to discussing the force of culture too, as long as it leads to greater “tolerance” for all cultures that do not fit western Christianity.

The attention Paul and Justin give to intelligence brings up a question:  what is the difference between intelligence and wisdom?  Can a person be intelligent (in the sense of being clever), yet not be wise?  If so, your focus on intelligence may leave out something that in everyday life is quite significant indeed.  (Keep in mind Weber’s observation that people in some times and places have been more rational than in others.)

I hear people say this all the time as if it somehow proves a point (not saying Kari is doing that) but the answer is pretty simple.

Intelligence is the ability to think abstractly, solve problems, use logic, acquire and apply knowledge etc.

Wisdom deals with an understanding of morality, good judgment, has important life experience that can be passed on etc.

They say people are “wise beyond their years” but they don’t say anyone is “intelligent beyond their years”

Marcus,
There may be more to the difference than is included in your definitions.  Please look at old discussions of the behavior called “folly.” People committing follies had all the characteristics you mention:  ability to think abstractly; solve problems; use logic; acquire and apply knowledge.  Yet they still behaved in ways that can best be described as stupid.  We may be overlooking something signficant here.

Great post! And I’d like to compliment you on an element of your response to Justin Raimondo the other day, calling attention to the intent behind off-handed bitchslaps of “white trash”. A characteristic of a certain breed of clueless, upper-class American honkey is proving his progressive, open-minded credentials by haughtily dismissing the poorest and most politically vulnerable of his own racial/ethnic group, while hypocritically extolling virtues of others - as long as those “others” mind their place as content “noble savages” in the low-end of the social gravel pit. American literature and entertainment is full of these yowling “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” moments of boorish pomposity.

Steven
Hmm. Say no to Barak HUSSIAN Obama
http://weblog.sinteur.com/2008/05/look-at-who-is-voting-for-hillary/

The President McCain fans were quite optimistic that the war will be over in 2012.

At least in Iraq. Bush and Ohlmert are currently finalizing or have now finalized the debacle in Iran. Can’t let them appeaser’s keep us from war.

It’s amazing that Bush and Ohlmert are barely in single digit approval ratings but can destroy their countries due to the disfunctional systems in place.

Right on, Jupiter!  And while we’re at it, why don’t we re-inter the Japanese and then deport the whole lot of them.  Helllooo?  Anyone in there or has that sweet appalacian air addled your brain. CF: Dr. Gottfried’s Response to Justin.  I think the problem is not smart Asians wanting to get ahead, it’s stupid, wealthy white guys who A. refuse to pick up a book (thank you Prof. Gottfried) and B. refuse to have children for fear of endangering their precious “quality of life.”

Instead of wasting time creating new conspiracy theories, I suggest you go a. find a wife and b. make a few babies (if you’re at all capable) and quit whining.

Being intelligent does not mean you’ll make the best life decisions.  That does not mean that intelligence is not what I defined.

All things being equal, the more intelligent you are, the better off you; and in general intelligence correlates positively with most positive social indicators and personality traits.

Intelligence is not everything in life, and of course there are other traits that are important. Social skills, empathy etc. help you get buy in life, but they aren’t “social intelligence” or “emotional intelligence”

I think Kari’s distinction, which is a Platonic one, between conventional smarts and
deeper wisdom is correct, and as someone who leans toward Plato, I have no trouble
embracing it. But Marcus is also correct about the advantages of conventional
intelligence (dianoia rather than episteme or sophia)for navigating through life,
showing moral restraint when necessary, and accepting responsibility. For most people
in most places, having good native intelligence, which can be at least partly measured
through testing, is indicative of a wide variety of social outcomes. Such an endowment
may not be sufficient to maintain a civilization (look at the nuts who teach in the Ivy
League)but it doe provide the general society with usable intellectual talent while
ensuring a high level of peaceful behavior.

The distinction between intelligence and wisdom is a valid one.  As Plato and Aristotle taught, intelligence can inspire the practice of basic virtues, without the need of high-level wisdom.  One of the less controversial conclusions which emanated from Herrnstein’s and Murray’s “The Bell Curve” was that there is a definite positive correlation between good manners and intelligence.  In short, individuals who are consistently rude are likely to be ignorant as well.  This decline in the virtue of civility has everything to do with the “dumbing down” of our culture.  It is a sign of the times that some business schools are being compelled to offer courses on etiquette to aspiring young nabobs.

Please stop boring readers with endless responses to other takimag writers.

Paleocons are just going to go round and round on this issue and end up bitter and in the same place. That’s exactly what the Marxists designed the racial/gender spoils programs to do--frustrate oppostion. They’re modus operandi: Infiltrate government, pit race against race and gender against gender with affirmative action programs designed to break Christian unity; grow the government by using it to “protect” all others from the hated Christian White Male bogeyman (who founded the country and its government in the first place), and then using the ever larger mound of requisitioned tax money to further incite social civil war and distract the country from the enemy within through foreign wars.

The way out of the trap is to emasculate the federal government and its ability to incite war by starving it of its funding. With some work and the restraint of government, Christianity, which has always been the cornerstone of Western civilization, will then naturally return to its rightful place in society as the arbiter of morality and social policy.

Of course, the two biggest enemies of Christianity, Jewish ideologues and Leftists, won’t like this at all, and will turn again to Marxists techniques to incite dissension.

This is why I am always saying: play the Christian card. It’s the only ideology that can reach across nearly all divisions and could possibly ever unify a multi-racial, multi-cultural, deeply polarized country with a modicum sanity.

The Marxist 15% will just have to remain excluded and alienated for the good of the sane 85%. Too damn bad. They’ve had it their way for too long now, and have driven the country into the ditch, possibly deliberately.

We can do this now, or we can hit rock bottom first and go through another civil war, but it’s going to happen.

To Jupiter:  Asian Americans have contributed a great deal of wealth to the country; do you want to throw all that away, just because the WASPs are too lazy to create on their own?

To Stan: stop boring us with snide and asinine remarks! Who the hell are you anyway, the censor on this site? Go take a course from Miss Manners if you can find your way out the door.

Right on sister!

I thought that the Trolls had finally left this place and went wherever Trolls go.  WRONG - they just change their hatreds.  Who would’ve thunk it - open season on the Asians. Me thinks “Jupiter” is one of the mass of lazy asses out there that can’t be bothered to actually work toward any sort of excellence but prefers to resent the ones that do.  And so our Appalachian Ubermensche really is something a little less than uber..

So Asians do everything that Conservatives ask for from immigrants… they assimilate, read and speak our language, they don’t lower the living standards of their communities, and THEN people here STILL hate them!  Well I guess there is just no pleasing true bigots…

Most of the people here agitating against Asians are likely Marxist agitators from the SPLC running a false flag operation.
If an Asian AIPAC manned by thousands of Asians across America is ever decisive in lying America into a war, then some complaints may be justified. Frankly, I can’t see it happening; Asian Americans just aren’t that subversive. On the other hand, AIPAC has plenty of Christian Zionist collaborators…

Jerry, our racialists are nothing if not consistent.  And consistently mendacious, consistently evil, and consistently stupid.

If people want to argue there are racial differences, then by all means I am willing to listen, especially if it has science to back it up.

But then there are those that go beyond that and demand that different races be treated less than human

Aren’t Ashkenazic Jews considered white?  I understand that they belong mostly to the
Mt DNA haplogroup “K”, which is European in origin.

Immigration is neither intelligent nor wise, just like Bush.

William of OC, all I have to say is this:

http://uploads.neowin.net/forum/post-21440-1142223479.gif

It’s interesting that honest replies to exit polls saying that race was a factor for many (not most) of the non-Obama voters is met with such and dismay.
Blacks, of course, are expected to vote for him because of race and not judged for doing so.
West Virginia Democrats notoriously vote straight party ticket - I grew up there and still visit there and have never heard anyone praise Byrd, by the way. He is just elected because he is the Democrat. Stupid party politics, but not groveling at the porl table. He is just building monuments to himself. There is no discernible effect on the state economy.

I’m afraid that may be all you deserve, OC. The whine-factor on this particular subject has reached fever pitch.

Our parents raised eight kids on a single income, (to put this in chronological context, my youngest sister is currently 9 years of age… so technically, my parents are STILL raising most of those kids).  Part of that time my father had nothing but a part-time lecturer’s position teaching German language and literature.
Do you know what we ate 45% of the time? It was a little dish that Dad called “krautfleckle” To you of non dirt-poor German descent, that’s noodles and cabbage. Oh and soy sauce. 35% of the time we had potato pancakes.  We’d also have on occasion home-made spaghetti and SOMETIMES a roast. 

There were no soft-drinks, no TV, no video games, no cell phones, no booze, No Named food, no holidays to Disneyland and. And for the first decade or so, no car, . I biked to school from the 3rd grade onwards and I personally was tormented for being “poor” and ugly (my nose was too big and my bike was stupid looking) by other White kids.  There was no new clothing. My mother was a champion at scouring the goodwill stores and to this day if you pay more than a buck fifty for a top for a kid, you’ve been ripped off.

I put myself through university working evenings and weekends.  I am still working my ass off to pay off the loans.  My second younger sister is currently doing the same.

So, my point, OC, and to all you other puffy racist whiners out there, if you really want something you’ll go for it and you won’t blame the Chinese if you haven’t gotten it yet.  Hell, do you think that somebody somewhere in those UCLA kids’ past didn’t sacrifice so that they can be where they are now?

Jupiter and William of OC are right about East Asians.

I have spent time in East Asia as both a student and a teacher. Asians are not interested in becoming Americans at all. They feel entitled to be Chinese, Korean, or whatever, wherever they are. They are nationalists and racialists. Second and third generation Asians in America still carry on the old conflicts between “imperialist Japs” and “dirty Chinese”. Unlike well-adjusted, loyal Americans, They still talk about “Azn pride” and “Korean pride”.

What have they ever contributed to American cultural or intellectual life? Well, why should we expect them to contribute anything? In culture-starved Korea, there is no intellectual life. There is just aggrandizement of the Korean race. In Japan, things get done not by individuals but by a group. The Chinese are equally collectivist and racially conscious.

I hear it every day. East Asian observers of the American presidential election prefer Obama because “it’s fair for a black man to win. Whites have treated blacks badly for so long.” These are the political opinions of East Asian adults.

Asians don’t assimilate, and they’re about as intellectual as you’d imagine they’d be coming from societies that demand absolute conformity and unity.

Hey DW, ever hear of “projection”?

jerry, how about making an argument? But it sounds like you probably don’t have anything more interesting to say on the subject than someone who has never even met an East Asian person.

Listen carefully to meaning behind the ideas presented by the mentally ill poster who calls herself “sister”:

Marie Claire’s sister: ...to all you other puffy racist whiners out there, if you really want something you’ll go for it and you won’t blame the Chinese if you haven’t gotten it yet.

For sociopath personalities like this, it is now the expected NORMAL state of affairs that whites be plunged into perpetual racial and intellectual competition with Chinese or whomever else - within the borders of white countries.

In other words, there are no longer white countries. There are only formerly white-dominated geographic areas that are now deluged with non-whites, where whites are expected to continually prove themselves worthy in the new competition for land and resources.

Got that? You will prove yourself, white boy. You will “go for it and you won’t blame the Chinese if you haven’t gotten it yet”.

Whites must prove themselves in the post-modern gladiator ring of racial competition against all immigrant newcomers. And whites shall not complain when they lose and they damn well better not celebrate when they win.

Stop and consider the madness of this. For whites, one can only attain legitimacy by endlessly competing against masses of invading aliens. And if you lose the competition...you’re White Trash. And if you win...it is expected that you’re intelligent enough to realize that “race does not matter to white people” and you will gladly produce mixed-race children.

So, according to these new laws of the universe, for whites it’s “you and him fight” until the end of time...while this “sister” keeps score and carefully notes whether you demonstrate any racial complaints after losing and any supremacist insults after winning.

After mulling this over for all of two seconds whites should ask themselves: Could the invaders of the white western world and their enablers be any more consumed by evil and hypocrisy?

Thank you “Marie Claire’s sister” for showing us exactly with whom we are dealing.

“jerry, how about making an argument? But it sounds like you probably don’t have anything more interesting to say on the subject than someone who has never even met an East Asian person.”

HAHAHAHAHA!! Oh thats rich!! Sorry, but I have had, since grade school up until now, almost half of all my friends were east asian.  It is YOU on the other hand, who never has met one.  You call east asians racist?  Then by all means please point out forums where they are talking about their racial superiority and how they want to take this country all for themselves....

Oh wait, thats what YOU are saying and doing!

Paul,
Actually my distinction is not Platonic but Christian.  I took the term “folly” from Erasmus’s “Praise of Folly,” and Erasmus himself said that in writing that book he simply made a vernacular version of a confessors’ manual—Erasmus wrote one of those too.

As to people who commit follies, they can have all the traits Marcus mentiond: they may know a great deal, be very clever in reasoning the immediate consequenses of their actions and work hard.  They can also be remarkably ruthless in pursuing their goals.  The problem lies in the selection of the goal.  People who commit follies seem incapable of asking the question: does pursuing this aim make sense?  As a result, their time, effort and knowledge are either wasted in meaningless activities or their efforts end up producing harm.

An example of the phenomenon can be seen in Nixon’s Watergate.  The Nixon team spent a great deal of time and effort to spy on the democrats.  They also operated ruthlessly, breaking the law and taking huge risks.  Yet, the whole project was totally unnecessary.  Nixon’s position was so strong he would have won the election without campaigning at all.  Somehow this fact never registered on Nixon’s team.  (Would “intelligent stupidity” be a correct name for this?)

Today the Iraq war fits quite nicely:  neocons know a lot, work hard and reason the short-term consequenses of their actions with remarkable cleverness.  Neocons are also remarkably ruthless and dishonest in their pursuit.  Yet the goal itself turns out to be counterproductive and/or impossible.

The cause of folly was thought to be poor self-knowledge, particularly an inability to understand one’s emotions and how they biased one’s “rational” thinking.  The connection between emotions and lack of wisdom was symbolized by the traditional depiction of love as a person whose eyes were tied and who was guided by folly.  Knowing oneself and one’s emotions and controlling them again is something that can be learned by everybody—Christianity used to teach it.

“Without a doubt the Hindu “American” is actively participating in the racial and economic dispossession of the majority Native Born White American population.”

Gasp!  Oh no!  Those damn Indians!  I just read they make up..... 0.006% of the US population!!  RUN FOR THE HILLS THEY ARE GONNA TAKE OVER!!

As an immigrant myself, I should not endorse the anti-immigrant views voiced here, but I can’t help to understand the native born white population in the US. Their forefathers built this country the old-fashioned way, by killing the ones that owned it before them. This is the way most countries come into existence, Israel being the latest example. And they did that to build a country for themselves and their progeny. As the heirs to the founders of this country it is only natural that they resent sharing the wealth of this country, just as anybody would resent the neighbors come and squat in their house. If the Mexicans and Chinese want to take over or “take back” the country, let them do it the old fashioned way – by force.

Gasp!  Oh no!  Those damn Indians!  I just read they make up..... 0.006% of the US population!!  RUN FOR THE HILLS THEY ARE GONNA TAKE OVER!!

Not taking sides in this ‘debate,’ but I just want to point out numbers can be deceiving--one does not look at the numbers relative to the whole of the United States, but relative to the local region, e.g. Southern California or the Bay Area, or more specifically by city. Then the poster’s point because a bit more comprehensible, even if one disagrees with his plan of action.

As the heirs to the founders of this country it is only natural that they resent sharing the wealth of this country, just as anybody would resent the neighbors come and squat in their house.

Not to play devil’s advocate, as conservatives should have some concern with culture--it’s a question of whether the native culture is better than another and if it is being lost through uncontrolled flux of immigrants in a particular area. One can contest the specifics--for example, the Bay Area does not really have a native American culture worth preserving, but this is not necessarily the case with all regions of the United States. (E.g. the South.)

“What bothered me about Justin’s attacks on rural white Americans, however, is that it was so damned PC.”

This is exactly the problem with this Raimondo guy - he is a leftist masquerading as a libertarian. He uses the term libertarian because it sounds more neutral and is less tattered than the term liberal.

Bill Maher has been doing this for years, and Justin in following in his footsteps.

Whatever you’re comfortable calling it: race or culture. There are some significant negative effects of the shifting demographics in this country. Asian immigrants in NYC, most likely from very low socio-economic backgrounds in China, are ignoring basic community zoning laws and converting traditional two family limestone homes into multiple family dwellings. Regular folks are raising holy hell about it, but the courageous local, elected officials say little for fear they will be labeled, good forbid, racist. In other instances, commercially zoned storefronts and buildings are being converted into mosques, but without contemplating the need for parking facilities. On Fridays, cars end up double parked,or pulled up on the sidewalk, blocking pedestrian right of way. When concerned citizens complain to the local police precinct, its commander doesn’t want to enforce basic parking regulations for fear of being label racists.

Sure, the easy thing is to blame the cops and the politicians. I’m right there with you—absolutely no testicular fortitude I grant you. The poor cop is after living that suburban dream (or nightmare); no doubt, both he and the politicians all have big mortgages and don’t want to rock the boat.

That said, these newcomers know exactly what they are getting away with and smile in fained ignorance of the social norms of established communities. I wish folks would stop the happy talk and accept the realities of the situation. These anecdotes illustrate the rule today.

Better be careful...wait until these folks are introduced to the four way stop...that’s the end of civilization as we know…

Be it race or culture, we need an honest discussion with minimal name calling and other anti-democratic tactics. Immigration to this country should be a privilege, and stringent obligations should be placed on immigrants without regard to perception or the fear of labeling. Right now, things are very upside down…

@ Roger T.  You wrote,

“Whites must prove themselves in the post-modern gladiator ring of racial competition against all immigrant newcomers. And whites shall not complain when they lose and they damn well better not celebrate when they win.”

That is correct--except the part about post-victory celebration.  Other than that, we do need to prove oursleves.  That’s life, fella.  I don’t recall the US cutting Britian a lot of slack after WWII, even though it had been THE global power for 100, or more, years.

What, since Europeans have done the most in the past (i.e inventions, philosophy etc.), that means we get to ride free now?  Sorry, evolution doesn’t work that way.

Maybve that’s why First world birthrates are so low.

Regarless, there no free rides.  To anyone.

We’d better get back in harness and get to work.

“Their forefathers built this country the old-fashioned way, by killing the ones that owned it before them.”

Really? All of them? Then who are living on all those reservations? That land accounts for almost 2.5 percent of American real estate - about 56 MILLION acres. More to the point - who’s getting all that gambling-concession money?

Oh, gosh… there I go busting that “extermination of the Indians” crap with the truth. I MUST be a racist.

What’s amazing, though - and you must admit this - is the reservations are maintained without collective punishment, without selective assassination and without indiscriminate terror (i.e., sniping nine-year-olds off their own rooftops).

(...Or is is “racialist” this year?)

San Fernando Curt:
That the Indians live now on the 2.5% of their previous territory underscores my point. And it makes no difference that the Indians allow gambling on their measly leftover land, which is mostly worthless desert. Nobody forces white America to go there and gamble. But this is not the point I wanted to make. I simply stated the fact that white Americans live now on land that once was occupied by Indians. And they got it usually by force. And I assume that the Indian tribes that were expelled, got posession of their hunting grounds by driving off - or killing - the ones that lived there before. It is just the way nature works. Sometimes there is a cover excuse - God divined it upon us - or similar crap, but underlying all is simply the fact that the stronger one takes it away from the weaker one. And no moralizing has so far changed this M.O. of nations. And as far as this relates to racialism, usually the newcomer imposes his law and culture upon the remnant of the previous owners, including the feeling of superiority - after all, he won. I leave it to Paul and Justin to argue if this is a bad or a good aspect of human nature.

Your “mostly worthless desert” exists in the eyes of unfledged beholders. Most reservations support industrious communities that belie the cliches placed on them by outsiders packing agendas; that they also contain poverty and alcoholism mirrors the fractures of this society at large. (And we won’t go into the Navajo reservation’s Four Corners mineral concessions - uranium, shale and other lucrative diggings - that have turned the tribe into the richest in the Western Hemisphere.)

In any event, there are no mandates restricting Native Americans to reservations. They are free to leave, and do so. Some thrive, some don’t. Many intermarry with other ethnic groups, work, pay taxes and curse credit card fees. My MD is a descendant of Crow shamen - medicine men. He wears a tribal bead choker, drives a Masserati and skis in Val d’Isère - and he’s honkier than I am.

You’re right: The MO of nations is to conquer and lie about it; the winner gets to write the history. But we must remember that history is also a political instrument, and changes to reflect the dominant political climate. That’s why you’ll find little in current accounts about “bad” Indians - only suspiciously congruent tales of relentlessly evil whites plotting massacres and trading scalps.

And for amorality, how about this: At the time of their conquest, Native Americans were living a paleolithic existence in an age of iron and steam. The rest of the world had simply moved past them. If it wasn’t Spaniards and Northern Europeans, someone else would have moved in - and bumped them off.