If I understand what you’re saying correctly, to make the race issues go away, all we have to do is convince the government to stop interfering in anything related to race.  The government can continue its 150-year pattern of relentless expansion in every other area of our lives, we just need it to reverse all its well-established laws and bureaucracies specifically related to quotas, non-discrimination, etc, and then the racial issue will fade into the background.

You make an excellent point about the tendency of racial discussions to become monopolized by very unpleasant people, such as that Old Atlantic person that tends to post comments on this site.  So while we wait for your Libertarian solution to materialize, which I don’t see happening any time soon, wouldn’t we better served to have people like you join the discussion?  Doesn’t that make more sense than whistling through the graveyard while waiting for Libertarianism to come to the rescue? 

At the end of the day, we are likely to find at least minor differences in average IQ between ethnic groups.  Wouldn’t it better if intelligent people like yourself were actively engaged in the argument and actively promoting the only real answer to this dilemma - that we are equal in dignity and worth before God?

Your use of the word balkanize is the opposite from what it means.

Yugoslavia, which is the former Balkan country referred to here, was one federal state that broke up into several sovereign states. Up until here there was no real problem with that happening. Yugoslavia was arranged in a similar way to Switzerland, the Soviet Union, and the USA. Soverign states would merge into a bigger, federal or confederal unit. Thus they’d reap all the advantages of being a bigger and more powerful political unit than compared to when each of those states act on their own. The reverse process was foreseen and built into the judicial frameworks of these federations from the very beginning of their formation. So there should be no surprise should one or all of the Swiss kantons decide to go solo. Or if Vermont should. It is written that they can.

In the Yugoslav dissolution wars the process went a bit further though. The Serb minority in Croatia created a fragmented para-state named Krajina. In neighboring Bosnia, the Serb minority, again, created another para-state, the Serb Republic. The Croatians in Bosnia saw that Bosnia as a country had no future and in turn created their own para-state, Herzeg-Bosnia, tightly attached to Croatia. And finally, a muslim businessman in Bosnia created his own Bosnian muslim fiefdom which was supported by both Serbia and Croatia, and which fought against the central muslim government of Bosnia.

In fact, this process went even further than described here. There were “pockets”, villages and cities which formally belonged to an established state or para-state, but in practice aligned with the supposed enemy locally. There was a place somewhere in Bosnia that was a very small Croatian area completely surrounded by the territories of their enemies, the Serbs and the muslims. So when they were at one time attacked by the muslims, they *rented* tanks from the Serbs to fight off the attack. After the battle was over, the rented tanks were returned. To their formal enemies.

Anyway, balkanization hasn’t happened in the USA yet. When Vermont, Texas or California secede, that will be according to the judicial framework of the states themselves and of the USA. Still no balkanization. However, when cities or counties in those states start seceding, when local warlords, or emperors, like Norton I, start making proclamations and backing them up with enough firepower, then we’ll have balkanization.

Do we want our daughters to go to Princeton and turn out like Mrs. Obama?

Better that, mutatis mutandis , than going to U of Hawaii and turning out like Stanley Ann Durham Obama Suharto Nehru Rigoberto Menchu

The problem, however, with your whole conception is—its been tried. It is basically the neocon line. (No, I am not accusing you of being a neocon, but on this area your policy is the same)You’re 43, you’ve probably been in the opinion game 15 years or so. Well, that would put us in OJ and post-LA riots timeframe. What has happened since then. Has the conventional conservative line abolished affirmative action—its had some succeses when put to the people, yes, but they are always subverted by elites linked with ethnic politicians. How about demographics—are white/euro-americans in a better position than 15 years ago. No, of course not, there are probably about 25 million or so more non-whites in the country now vs. a small increase in whites. Our schools are crowded with the children of foreigners—middle class (read white) LA parents have to go through all kinds of gyrations to get their spawn into a descent (read, 50% white) learning environment. Housing prices have spiraled—young white couples cannot afford to buy and start a family , Chinese will put four families into a single family dwelling. Our kids are subjected to radically revised history (Harriet Tubman is better known that Thomas Edison) , tWWII was fought about ‘the Holocaust’ rather than over Pearl Harbor) when our kids get to University they are subjected directly or filtered through various orientation programs the hate whitey/destroy whitey propaganda of ciritcal white studies. Our population is suffering from such shell shock that half of its leftward members are willing to vote for a man who for twenty years attended a church led by a pastor that obviously hates them, and a congregation that largely agreed in that hate.

No, Mr. Zmirak. We’ve tried your road. No results. We got Grutter. Even if, by some miracle, the feds wuld start to leave us alone, immigration would continue to squeeze us economically and politically, and I see no sign that ‘La Raza’ or the NAACP, or the ADL will adopt the spirit of your proposal for ‘fair play’.

The hour is late. We must mobilize as EuroAmericans

Excellent!

It is still important to study average racial IQ, not to profile individuals, but to rebut the assumption that proportions in professions and so on that don’t reflect proportions in the general population are in themselves sufficient evidence of immoral and illegal discrimination.

From a Christian point of view the kind of insight that comes (sometimes) from the kind of intelligence tests measure is only a dim reflection of the kind of contemplation we look forward to in another life.  Those who are slower in that kind of cleverness are often closer to the real thing than we Mensa types.  And cleverness is often the slippery slope to real stupidity.  But to do certain kinds of earthly work well it is surely essential.

Just to be clear, I don’t put ‘the Holocaust’ in quotes due to any doubts that Jews were killed, or even that they were killed in industrial fashion. Rather, I refuse to privilege those deaths about Gypsy deaths, or about the Ukranians killed in the same two decade period of upheaval.

You know, the porn thing is a strange part of this essay and could have been excised. However, it is worthwile to note that segregationists in the south made much of ‘immorality’ (sexual) and predicted that granting blacks civil rights would result in that populations habits spreading to the white population. They seem to have been correct.

Here’s a quick and easy way to return America to the land where native born citizens and immigrants, regardless of country of origin and race, will be on the same page morally, culturally, and socially.  Eliminate all social programs funded by taxes, including SSI, AFDC, homeownership incentives, subsidized housing programs, etc. EXCEPT for taxpayer funded English language courses, which should be mandatory for incoming immigrants.

Immigrants used to come to America for the opportunity to reap the rewards of hard work and good grades.  Now, they come for the social programs.  We’ve seen the results.  This will also serve to strengthen the native born populace which has become generationally dependent on these things.  Welfare reform didn’t go far enough.

Ron Paul is hardly a whore for any corporation - the biggest corporate welfare (including NAFTA, WTO) he uniformly opposes, as he does the breaks and subsidies.

But to the greater point, the Catholic church usually wins because it is “both-and”, not “either-or”.

Why should the USA be any different?  The foundation was Protestant, puritan, with a dose of the healthy enlightenment, merged into the flawed but amendable constitution.

I’d prefer to be a minority in a society where a vast majority honored the founding principles, than in a majority of Englishmen, Scots, Germans and the like pushing socialism - think pre-Thatcher UK.

The Church Christ founded started off Jewish.  100%.  Then it spread to converts to jews, then to most of Europe, and then to China and Africa.  (The church had conquistadors, but also missionaries - what did the Englishmen and “Americans” do after the Mexican-American war)?

The Church is an assent to an idea - that of the crucifixion and resurrection.  I see no reason the USA cannot be the same thing.  Is the problem of the immigrants that they are of the wrong race, or that they are dissenters?  The melting pot didn’t assimilate people into being englishmen (or the Monty Python sketch were people turned into Scotsmen comes to mind).  They assimilated by assenting to basically what Ron Paul preaches (and I don’t use that word lightly - if there is a secular gospel, he preaches it).

Insofar as I’m one of the only millions of Ron Paul supporters, I’m in the minority.  But if you want diversity in superficial things, it is in that minority.

And lest I as a Catholic forget Divine Providence, the cure will be a reformation or a revival, or whatever the Catholic equivalent is.  A move of the spirit.

Finally, if you have an extra chromosome, you are 90% likely to be executed in the womb.  We don’t wait to see if there might be a cure or if a Downs syndrome person might function normally in society.  Can’t take that chance.  Kill them while they are still “a choice”.  For Liberals, their nightmare is already coming true.

“And if tou haven’t read Tom Chittum’s book read it. It is the most likely scenario.”
Jim Kalb discusses here why it may not be:
http://turnabout.ath.cx:8000/node/11

So, exactly how did all these different ‘races’ escape the great flood?

By the way, what’s this about a Euramerican majority?  You are a Slav and I am a Celt, and we are both Catholic and Orthodox.  The WASP establishment that owns America has, indeed, accepted Jews, but not us.  We are a minority viewed with a combination of racial contempt and religious hatred.  Read The Conflict of Civilizations, written by a token goy at a Jewish university, one who knows his place.  His war of civilizations, their war of civilizations, is a war against us as well as against the Muslims and Mexicans.  One reason for affirmative action, and perhaps for the kind of immigration we have, is to keep us down.

Actually, the name derives from personal history, a long sojourn in the Balkans. Everyone is white there.It was pretty cool; I felt no need for added diversity.  I was often mistaken for a Slovenia or German.

I am a white American, that’s my reality.

“Because they have been marginalized from the centers of “decent” debate, many paleocons have given in to the temptations that come with living on the fringe.”

Mr. Buchanan, whom I believe is liked and respected in these parts, writes about the death of the west and I he doesn’t just mean the Western Church, classical music, and great art. He means specific, historical peoples and he doesn’t back down from naming them. Now, if his death of the west rhetoric is hyperbolic, then I’d like to see some the authors like Mr. Zmirak, the Chroniclers, et al call him on this and the type of reaction it produces in MARs. What he describes is an EXISTENTIAL threat. If he’s wrong then he and his type are deliberately inciting the type of people that Mr. Zmirak describes and I’m not just talking about the SFRONTERS and jew-obsessed anti-semites.

If the replacement of the western peoples is not one of the most fateful POLITICAL issues of our time, and if the inability to discuss or even think about race in a non-liberal manner isn’t THE controlling factor in the most fateful political issue of our time, then please correct Mr. Buchanan and in the meantime try to be more understanding of some of us “browns” who aren’t motivated by hate but rather for love of our own.

p.s. Brimelow also says that we are motivated by love not hate.

Uh, Mr. Purcell,

Mr. Zmirak has said that his mother was Irish.  So will you call him a Slavo-Celt?  Or
can he use the less clunky Euro-American?  Also, good for you to point out that
Samuel Huntington deserves no respect from conservatives.  He is a liberal who fears
Mexicans since he fears they’ll actually return to their Catholic roots at some point.
For him, they are a ticking time bomb.  I hope that he’s right!

Slavs and Celts of the mind, like that dagger in MacBeth. Recent studies have shown some interesting and sometimes amusing findings about European racial subgroups.

Englishmen are more than 80% racially Celtic.
Germans and Croatians are 45% racially Celtic. Only a small minority of the Germans are racially Germanic. Just as a small minority of the Croatians are Slavic.
Hungarians are racially predominantly Slavic, which they didn’t like to hear, but it nevertheless stands. Whatever their stock they still seem to have the prettiest women in Europe.

So we see that linguistic groups don’t need to correspond to racial groups. These races mentioned above are a snapshot of what various white people looked like maybe two thousand years ago, and already then they mixed.

People draw conclusions about things of which they have no clue. Nancy Pelosi is Italian. Because of her name. No, she’s not. Her family name may be, but she’s jewish with roots in Argentina.

It is a mystery to me how an Englishman can claim any superiority in any matter, racial, cultural or in sports. Not too beautiful to look at, no culture among the ordinary people and no participating in the biggest sporting event on the planet. The European Championship in Football that will begin soon. Superior in snottiness, yes, otherwise no.

@tz: “And lest I as a Catholic forget Divine Providence, the cure will be a reformation or a revival, or whatever the Catholic equivalent is. A move of the spirit.”

A movement, not from the east, not from the west, not from the north, & not from the south. But from above. A mighty wind coming, not man made, but of Divine Origin.

Only problem with this expectation of a political movement “of the spirit” is that those who waited during those days of Pentecost were commanded to do so by their Master and Commander that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but should wait for the promise of the Father. So the virtue of obedience is necessary for any “real” and effective movement. And since these men and women where in one place they also were persevering with one mind in prayer. Faith and Charity is necessary as well.
So any successful political movement is dependent on: “all together in one place all of one mind.” Very necessary.
This is not going to occur considering our current collective political state of mind ( we are more at home in Dante’s Inferno, than with the Apostles in the upper room.

All together in one place all of one mind.…..

As far as races go, Mr. Senna has the right of it.  Doctor Zee is half Irish, and so am I, and even my Irish name (the one I go by, anyway) is not only Norman in Ireland, but is said to go back to one Diego Rodriguez Porcel of Castille.  But as such things go in America, our masters view us as not quite white.  We might as well fraternize with Latinos, especially as it is the Christian thing to do.  And as a philosopher I will take Ortega, Marias, and Zubiri over Dewey and Rorty any day.

Reposted from other thread:

Without wanting to get into discussing the merits of the ongoing debate about if and to what extent races exist and differ (I would probably fall uncomfortably on the social constructionist side), can we all agree that the races absolutely DO NOT DIFFER as regards those features relevant to questions of justice and/or natural law?  That is, the same norms regarding personal liberty, the acquisition and transfer of property, contractual relations and free association, and restitution apply equally to all members of all racial or ethnic categories.

Also, I think those making heredity-based arguments to explain the so-called achievement gap ought to acknowledge that injustices perpetrated in the past by white slave traders and slave owners would at least be partly reponsible for the hereditary endowments of the descendents of slaves.  As such, this genetic data (if meaningful) is not entirely exogenous to the moral evaluation of the historical relations between the races (although it may well be exogenous to the evaluation of present behavior). Therefore, whites may not use such evidence to completely absolve themselves and their ancestors of all (group-level) moral responsibility for present outcomes simply on the basis of their traceability to differential IQ scores.

@stari momak: “The hour is late. We must mobilize as EuroAmericans”

What kind?  the nasty godless democratic nazi kind or Roman kind?

“As you are Christians, so be you Romans.(St Patrick)This We feel in a special manner because we are all citizens of Rome.” Pope Paul VI

The Roman Kind.  Now just what form of government did the Romans organize themselves under?

However differences in ability may come about, you do not do anyone a favor by putting him (or her) in a school or a job where standards have to be lowered to accomodate him (or her).

Mr. Zmirak:  Good post, I agree with much of what you say, although I am generally skeptical of calling people ‘racists’.  As Sam Francis pointed out, such an accusation is straight from the Cultural Marxist playbook, and meant to undermine Western Civilization.

Frank Purcell:  As anyone who has spent time in Mexico or border towns knows, José Ortega y Gasset (a Spaniard, not a Mexican) is not representative of the masses invading our homelands who, by the way, easily outperform WASP women in STDs, promiscuousness, out-of-wedlock child births, and abortions.

Regarding my above post, health department data indicate that immigrant women from Mexico outperform white women simultaneously in both childbirth (often out of wedlock) and abortions. This idea, often championed by pro-immigration neoconservative Catholics, that somehow mestizo Catholics are going to save Euro-America from itself is a myth, which statistics bear out in now way, and which paleo Catholics, like Scott Richert and Thomas Fleming, have debunked.

“People draw conclusions about things of which they have no clue. Nancy Pelosi is Italian. Because of her name. No, she’s not. Her family name may be, but she’s jewish with roots in Argentina.”

Uh, Mr. Senna, where’d you get that info.?  From what I’ve read, her mother and at least her
paternal grandfather were both born in Italy.  So how does she suddenly become an
Argentine Jew, huh?

Pelosi is an Italian American from a Baltimore political family. Old Tom D’Alessandro got into hot water for doing pro-Benito broadcasts. Italy is on the Med so there is mixed blood from the entire region including Viking Normans and Arabs and blond Germans. People move and history is a tale of the consequences.

The Irish are said to have entered Eire from Galicia in Spain.The genetic basis of the Brits are the pre-historic people that were conquered by the Celts. My Spanish sister-in-law has a Galician mother which makes us cousins. She is from Asturias which was never conquered by the Moors and was where the reconquista began. It is still pretty Moorless unlike a lot of Spain which is overrun by Moroccans and other residents of the former Spanish Sahara.

When the white race acts to restore racial purity will we send the brown Meskins back south and keep the white ones?

Buchannan says quite rightly that whites are committing racial suicide by not having children. Contraception and abortion have little to do with race unless its your race that invented and promoted the scheme to kill itself off. Mormons and the rare Catholic family are the only ones that seem interested in large families. Wasps limit the number of kids and Republicans send those few off to die in war to fight for corporations who could care less about them.

Worrying about race which we can’t control when we are being robbed, cheated, enslaved, murdered, and generally made property of the state seems a bit foolish. If you want a white dictator fine but when you are under a whip does it matter if the hand holding it is white, mulatto, quadroon, or octaroon? Actually it does, an overseer of colour beats twice as hard to show the Master he shouldn’t be beaten himself.

Craig Senna, your claim about Pelosi is utter BS.  I found the stupid neo-Nazi site
that is spouting this nonsense—they just wildly speculate, and utterly ignore
where her ancestors actually came from.  For crying out loud, they look at her facial
features!  As though we didn’t already know that certain Italian phenotypes and certain
Jewish ones are similar.  Then they cite a *gigantic* list of surnames found among
Argentinean Jews and note that a form related to her maiden name happens to make the list.
Big whoop!  Some Jews from Italy have the same surnames as some Italians from Italy.
Heck, I know some Gentiles named Meier and Alexander—does that mean they’re really
“crypto-Jews”?  Good grief, what Nazi garbage.  No mention of the fact that none of her
ancestors came from Argentina.  Avoid those websites, they are evil!

Wow… I’m just amazed to see a new hermeneutic of “Balkanization” that *starts* with the pre-supposition of Yugoslavia.

...now back to your regularly scheduled nativist drivel.

he also complained when Imus was thrown off the air, even though imus is the perfect example of everything he hates the left for in the “culture wars”.  as long as guys who are wearing cowboy hats are doing it, it’s okay.  and everythign the other side does is suspect

Are you sure he wasn’t “complaining” because a racist double standard was being applied in the case of Imus? Or for some reason?

I hope I didn’t give the impression Don Pepe was typical of Mexican women who slip across the border — he wasn’t even typical of Spanish men!  The women you complain of are just the sort of people our affirmative action welfare state attracts.  This has nothing to do with the Latin culture or even (sorry guys) Indian blood.  We can live with both.  We can’t live with the affirmative action welfare state, and this would be true if we had the Berlin Wall across our border.  Close the border by all means, but that won’t do much good unless other changes are made, changes which I view as more urgent.

When the demographic profile of a society changes to the extent that the original founders are near extinct, for what purpose should anyone descended from and believing in the founding demographic defend the new society. He won’t because it ain’t gonna be any longer hison.

Amen Mr. Zmirak!
Your idea of getting the government out of the racism business may not be the solution to end all problems, but it certainly is a good start to solve the problem of envy between the different groups over government preferences and one hopes that after a while the ethnic mixture that America is learns to see race as an unimportant factor of life.
To Mr. Senna:
Where do you get these asinine numbers from?
“Englishmen are more than 80% racially Celtic.
Germans and Croatians are 45% racially Celtic. Only a small minority of the Germans are racially Germanic.”
Could it be that you define Celtic and Germanic different than the rest of the world?

I think what Mr. Senna is referring to is the work of geneticists Bryan Sykes and Stephen Opeenheimer. Their work shows that the British have a solid bedrock of pre-Celtic, neolithic and perhaps even mesolithic blood. The various invaders (Celts, Anglo-Saxon-Jute-Frisian, Dane, Norse) left a detectable “footprint” the degree ofr which varied by location (Orkney, East Anglia, etc are fairly Norse/Germanic). The basic conclusion is that the people of the British isles are largely an indigenous people. I thought this was a fascinating conclusion. Even the mysterious Picts of Scotland are largely pre-Celtic stock and not much differnet from the rest of the Brits.

I don’t know as much about the ancestry of the Norse/Germans as there aren’t as many books published in English that mirror Sykes/Oppenheimer’s work. There appears to be a fairly high percentage of Norwegians, particularly in the west that come from the same paternal “clan” as many of the Brits/Irish. The western peoples caing the Atlantic//North sea tended to have many contacts and the Western fjords are isoloated so I’m not surprised. As far as what constitues Germanic, it depends on who you talk to and what you mean. Professor Malcolm Todd say that the Germans didn’t emerge as a distinct people until a couple of hundred years before Christ. Other scolars trace them back to 2000 BC.

Celts are an Iron Age people whose art is identifiable as the Hallstadt style and LaTene style. A model of cultural diffusion rather than mass replacement is now widely accepted (in the case of the British Isles) and this seems to be supported by Sykes conclusions.

Latin Americans are already Westerners/Occidentals and are therefore “Euro-Americans”. The most jingoistic Texans I know look like they could have served in Montazuma’s army.  List any characteristics of “Americans” and one will find that Pre-1808 “Afro-Americans” are the most American people of all.  For nothing really remains of West African Bantu culture in them, as anyone who’s been to Africa will recognize immediately.  The culture of the pre-1808ers is largely Borderer Backcountry (misnamed the “Scots Irish"), even in (or especially in) dance and music. And their church is English Non-Conformist and their preachers are English “Ranters” from the 17th C.  So they too are utterly “Euro-American”.  Turning to other folk, Irish are really more English than the Scots (and are becoming more so everyday). North German and South German/Austrian are utterly different cultures. Munich has vastly more in common with Vienna than with Berlin.  And Venice and Naples are utterly different worlds.  The Croats and the Serbs look like each other, but bitterly antagonistic to each other.  And don’t tell them this either, but Greek cooking is Turkish with booze. Culture can be shared, even totally absorbed and even driving out another culture. 

So much for culture supposedly being “racial”. Our fascist Braunen—in their moronic racialist xenophobia—are simply bovinely stupid and satanically evil.  The Republicans are the stupid party, the Dimmykrats the evil, and the Braunen are both.

Ooops, talk about foot in mouth and confirming my own claim in a very ironic way, considering Nancy Pelosi. Thanks to Caper and others for rectifying this. I never visited any web site, but the guy who told me this probably did. Well, I guess the sensation of believing to have found out something “secret” about Nancy Pelosi won over common sense and caution. My mistake.

As to the genetic studies of Europeans, I read about it in some magazine, and then saw some references to it on the web. It was some time ago and what I mentioned is what I remembered about it. I can’t recall the name of the study and it may be the one mentioned above.

I have no private definitions of racial Celts, Slavs, etc. If someone is disturbed to hear that what he has believed was true for his entire life, now seems false, well, such is life. We all get disappointed, don’t we?

When it comes to races, we all have a stake in the matter.

The culture of the pre-1808ers is largely Borderer Backcountry (misnamed the “Scots Irish"), even in (or especially in) dance and music.

Do these “pre-1808ers” still exist?
Are they still spry enough to dance and listen to music? Where can I see them in the flesh?

Mr. Senna:
I am certainly not disappointed in discovering that there is new information regarding the genetic make-up of Europeans. I do not have a dog in that fight. I have learned over the years that there is no justification to believe that membership in one genetic group is justification to believe in one’s moral superiority. However, I admit that for certain companionship I prefer those members of our society that have an XX chromosome in their DNA.

My Dad (stepdad) is Australian and I have lived there on and off for years.  They are far less interested in IQ as an indicator of anything of any importance and in fact find it funny that Americans talk about it so much - as though you can come up with a quotient for intelligence.  It measures some kind of very basic ability to recognize certain types of patterns and nothing else.  Most academic ability seems to me to be dependent on your temperament, not your raw brain power.