Thank you for mentioning the Vdare article on the end of Paleolibertarianism.  I realized long ago that Rockwell, Raimondo and a few others, who had made a place for themselves on the right, had pulled a reverse “neo-con” on us.  They are no longer paleo-, right, conservative, libertarian or anything of the sort.  They are leftists continuing to masquerade as right wingers.

Marcus,

A well written piece. The Mises people have wedded their political an monetary fortunes to the Ron Paul gravy train.

I might not be a fan of what the United States has become (perhaps always was) but the ferocious hatred and vitriolic attacks you find on lewrockwell from cretins like Anthony Gregory or some of the other unsavory elements who post there leave one desirous of reading Jeremiah Wright’s magazine The Trumpet.

Raimondo - you wrote a great book once on The Right. But denying the reality of race will be libertarians undoing.

Just like Republicans trotting out the token Mexican or token Black, all libertarians can do is trot out the token individual - someone who has forsaken all bonds of community, family and importantly, race and heritage.

The old history of the United States is one of conquest. European settlers did take a largely uninhabited continent from warring tribes of nomadic people.

All this take of freedom and anarcho-capitalism is silly, when the only people who play by those rules are the ones espousing it.

Vdare has fired a mighty salvo and one that was needed.

Ron Paul is a brave man. But is ideas of sound money, fiscally responsibility and an end to foreign wars don’t resonate with the American people.

The VDARE piece is right. Buchanan actually won primaries in 1992 and 1996. Heck, it took a William F. Buckley piece pointing out his anti-semitism (whatever that may mean) to derail his campaign.

Paul’s should have been aborted before it began.

As Peggy Noonan insinuated today, the Republican Party is about to collapse. Dr. Francis once stated, if America - that is the traditional America - is to be salvaged, the Republican Party must be destroyed.

We are upon those days.

Let the Lew Rockwellites go on talking about open borders, red state facism, etc…

The Middle American Radicals just need a outlet for the aggression that is laregly absent for them. They’ve been taxed to death, beaten down psychology by the media, schools, etc., and are now forced to mortgage their homes for gas.

Calls of anarcho-capitalism aren’t going to win their hearts and minds and attacking America is only going to distance them further.

Calls to blood and defending their families and heritage, and yes, nation/state, will.

Vdare 1
lew Rockwell 0, and a big zero.

Much of the Vdare article applies equally to the “death of paleoconservatism” so often declared, so I am not sure what “no longer paleo” means.  If anyone in the paleo coalition is on the outs, it’s the traditional nationalist whose arguments and sophistication are falling behind on their populist right pedigree.

As is so often the case, it appears, there is a difference between those who will consider a variety of identity based demagogic tactics, and those who will argue that some tactics are out of bounds.

While I would be inclined to favor a set of tactics around “anti-statism and identity” I actually don’t run any institutions, though I post on the Internets.

Tactics in electoral politics are a fair debate, seconded only by the theory that a “blood and soil” set of tactics would work, though the bench is looking very thin, no?  And before anyone mentions

And really, the hyperbole of “mortgaging homes to pay for gas” doesn’t help.

Can’t the institutions that make up the Right be allowed some experimentation on their own?  Does it truly require ideological and tactical purity?  The entire project of alliances and parliamentarian thinking is lost to those stuck in “social democratic” politics.

Bill Kauffman has found the means to split the difference between the paleo-camps, but it seems rather odd for blood n soil nationalists to say they have the answers when they are still working on finding a couple authors who won’t take a long and winding road back to the Establishment.

A great post from Mr. Epstein.

Societies that believe everyone is naturally equal are susceptible to delusions such as what Charles Murray called “educational romanticism”. As Lawrence Auster has written, once natural differences are denied, what is left to explain why outcomes are unequal? Oppression, discrimination, Eurocentrism, “institutional racism”, etc. People conclude that whites must be doing something horrible and that white civilization, being “oppressive”, doesn’t deserve to exist. A vacuum is left that must be filled with SOME culture—inevitably from one of the more self-confident, aggressive peoples around.

Yikes, I said I wanted to steer clear of the paleolibertarian debate.

... someone who has forsaken all bonds of community, family and importantly, race and heritage.

Many families I know are dysfunctional. There is no sense of community in most of the community. The car culture and suburban sprawl did that in a lot of the country. Strong community sense and family are exemplified in gangs like MS13.

My Irish ancestors were brutally oppressed by my English ancestors who used the Irish to go out and murder, loot, rape, and steal their way around the world. America inherited all that by buying the British Empire at the end of WWII.

I like to think of the melting pot as a way of creating something new and getting rid of the dross we all inherit. What made America great was it was a place where people could re-invent themselves. A place of new beginnings and opportunity. A conformist police state is anti ethical to that idea.

It seems people are saying if I eat a taco or a tandoori chicken I am betraying western civilization.

President McCain will put everything right and bring us all into line.

I think it’s been well established that Justin has no clue about race, IQ, or anything besides foreign policy.  Why doesn’t he stick to what he does best: Making fun of the Cato Institute for being filled with gays.

“...What is left to explain why outcomes are unequal? Oppression, discrimination, Eurocentrism, ‘nstitutional racism’, etc. People conclude that whites must be doing something horrible and that white civilization, being ‘oppressive’, doesn’t deserve to exist.”

As Mr. Epstein indicates above, this is one of those cases where means and ends are deliberately confused to cloak the real goal, which is to eliminate white - i.e., western - culture. Battling “racism” is just another arrow in the quiver… and reliable sop for useful idiots.

People here who complain that “the man” is keeping down the “white race” are no better than the Jesse Jacksons or Al Sharpton’s of the world who complain how society is keeping “black people down”.  Both sides are idiots who complain that “their race” is being held back, when in truth the government artificially creates these impressions in order to keep people from asking the “wrong” questions

@Timon the Whinger
“I like to think of the melting pot as a way of creating something new and getting rid of the dross we all inherit. What made America great was it was a place where people could re-invent themselves. A place of new beginnings and opportunity. A conformist police state is anti ethical to that idea.”

Well said!  That is what made America so great… it was a fresh new start, and we kept what we thought was good and rejected what we thought was bad.  American 19th century architecture was so great, not because it copied the European models, but because it borrowed certain aspects of Europe but gave it a new American flavor

Right… there is no cultural left, there are no anti-white initiatives in American media and politics. Hate crime laws were intended to benefit whites, not stigmatize them. And up is down, night is day and black white.

Ah… c’mon… dig up a brain.

Jerry wrote:

“Both sides are idiots who complain that “their race” is being held back, when in truth the government artificially creates these impressions”

The government “artificially creates” the “impression” that qualified whites are passed over for good jobs in favor of unqualified nonwhites, that whites are taxed to support welfare mostly for nonwhites, that whites are 110 times more likely to be raped by blacks than vice versa, and that immigrants vote overwhelmingly for a party dedicated to continuing all of the aforesaid phenomena?

Pray tell, how does it “artificially create” that “impression”?

By the way, a “conformist police state” is what you will have when there is no other way to manage the conflict between the productive ethnic groups and the unproductive, parasitic ones.

You people and al sharpton are doing exactly what our government wants.... hating each other.  Right now people like John McCain are laughing at you, taunting “dance my little puppets, dance!”

Are you gonna let yourselves become puppets?  Just because al sharpton demands more government funds for blacks, does that mean you must respond to a sin with an equal or greater sin?

I’m a relative young’un and I guess this is why I’ve never understood the racial debate. So long as the government gets off everyone’s back and stops their goddamn affirmative action policies, which are honestly detrimental not just to white society but black society as well, who really cares whose smarter than who? If the government leaves whites alone and doesn’t give weight to the black race in job/university applications who cares whose smarter?

If theoretically in an ideal world privledge to Blacks and nonwhites in general, who really cares about whose smarter? To me it’s besides the point. Government priviledge is mother of facism and only screws everyone over. If the government endowed privledges of Affirmative Action and the Welfare state are eliminated I don’t see why anyone should care about which race is smarter anymore then I care about which race has curlier hair. Besides while Mr. Epstein’s arguments are well crafted and well writen I think the simple argument that privledge is bad will work with not just “Middle American Radicals” but “Middle American Everybody”.

“I’m not saying that these differences necessarily exist, but arguing that they do certainly does not help the cause of the State and its social engineers.”

Sure it does, Mr. Esptein. Are you forgetting that the institution of slavery was justified precisely on such differences?  Blacks simply were deemed born to be slaves. It was white man’s burden to bring light into the world and be the first to enjoy its fruits. By law.

The race question is scientifically extremely complex, both in terms of definition and in the measurement of characteristics, be they skin color, eye shape, bodily strength, DNA genome, propensity to certain diseases or intelligence.  For each characteristic there are issues of methodology, applicability, distribution across the studied population, and many other questions, especially that of interpretation of cause and effect.

As human beings we recognize the humanity of everyone, regardless of race, national origin, or sex.  We are all different. There are blacks who are much smarter than most whites. There are Ashkenazim who are less intelligent than most Ghanaians. Maybe not many, but they exist. 

Self-interest –rightly understood- obligates us to consider each person first and foremost on his/her own merits.

My apology for having mistyped your name above, Mr. Epstein.

The real question, is what do the race realists propose?  The current system is a disaster.  Great.  We agree on that.  So what is the solution?

If paternalism in all its forms is off the table, as I assume we all agree it should be, what does that leave?  I assume there are still some lunatics that believe in recolonization and maybe even a crazy here or there in favor of a return to slavery, but as a serious matter, there are two solutions.  One is a rigidly enforced racial caste system imposed by a national police force with unparalleled powers.  The other, saner option is the one endorsed by the Rothbardians of all ilks, left, paleo and otherwise: cultural and community based secession. 

Frankly the race realists over at VDare seem a little comfortable with the police state, not to mention awfully shortsighted when it comes to matters of race.  I am not frightened by or opposed to white nationalism or black nationalism, but when they are used to justify things like forced sterilization or Mugabe’s killing fields they ought to be tossed on the woodpile.  Especially when there is a better option available.

Rothbard believed in racial differences (he also believed that slavery was the Republics original sin..I suppose in the eyes of some that makes him a PC fool).  So do I.  So does Jeremiah Wright.  Off the record most everyone does. 

The issue isn’t the existence of these differences, so much as it is what tactics and behaviors should be taken by all sides to keep those differences from destroying the whole.

The country is going to be like Brazil, Mexico, Singapore, or Hawaii. They aren’t so bad get used to it.

“The country is going to be like Brazil, Mexico, Singapore, or Hawaii. They aren’t so bad get used to it.”

Singapore and Hawaii are nice places, although in Mexico and Brazil it depends on where you live

“In the process, they have essentially abandoned “paleolibertarianism”, the once-promising intellectual movement that stayed true to libertarian principles while opposing open borders, libertinism, egalitarianism, and political correctness.”

Vdare casts poor division bait and Justin bites? Rockwell and Rothbard are not the center of libertarianism for myself. I was a libertarian far before I knew who either was. Racial thinking does not make one a libertarian or not.
This is simply meant to divide libertarian from libertarian.

Rothbard and Rockwell wrote Paul’s newsletters for a time. They wrote racist remarks. They ended Paul’s campaign for many. Rockwell should have made an apology. I still read
lewrockwell.com. We’re still allied towards freedom as libertarians with minor differences.

“The other, saner option is the one endorsed by the Rothbardians of all ilks, left, paleo and otherwise: cultural and community based secession.”

Fine with me, but this complete freedom of association is also endorsed by Jared Taylor. It would be opposed by Jackson, Sharpton, Obama, Wright ...etc as they think they have a right to the money and hard work of other people/races.

And PLEASE stop talking about slavery as unique to whites or Americans. Slavery is a universal institution first halted by whites and still practiced by blacks. Let’s hear some outrage over black slavery (still practiced today) before lecturing whites for the millionth time on an institution that helped blacks escape slavery in the Dark Continent and enjoy prosperity in a civilization they didn’t (and couldn’t) create.

Also, it would help if Raimondo, Zmirak, Sid Cundiff and others learned a little about what white race activists think and do before commenting on them. Yes, they state the facts about race and IQ. But they admit that Asians score higher than whites on average intelligence.

A greater concern is the second class status of whites in America due to affirmative action, media bias, black racism, hate crimes, hoax crimes, racism in the legal system ...etc

At heart, Jared Taylor wants only what the NAACP wants (and gets) for their people.

I refer you to this article for an overview: http://www.amren.com/ar/1990/11/index.html

Open your mind!

Oh, and as stated elsewhere, I’ll take Rothbard, Sailer, Taki, Taylor, Murray, Herrnstein, Hoppe, Jensen, Levin, Watson, Rushton...etc over buffoons and statists like Raimondo and Cundiff any day.

Raimondo a statist?!  Bernie, go back to your village, they miss their idiot

Bernie, You are conceding too much.  Jared Taylor does not want what the NAACP wants for blacks, he just wants whites to be left alone and free to create their own societies.  NAACP wants whites to give blacks their money, their jobs, let them commit crimes without getting punished, give up their own identity while still apologizing for ‘racism’

I sure wish Rothbard were still around because he was really one of us unlike this Raimundo and Rockwell who are corrupting the tradition with their ‘redstate fascism’ hype.

Luckily there is still Hans Hoppe who is an authentic paleolibertarian, and who understands the inegalitarian nature of true liberty.

Jared Taylor is a much more talented writer on the topic of race than Raimundo, the latter whom is little more than a PC cop among the right.

If paleoconservatism makes a come back I cannot imagine Raimundo cheering it on with his leftish commentary.

Typical of neocons and white supremacists to refer to anyone who slightly disagrees with them as “leftist”

“Typical of neocons and white supremacists to refer to anyone who slightly disagrees with them as “leftist””

Typical of guys like you to refer to anyone who slightly disagrees with you as a ‘neo-con’ or ‘white-supremacist.’

I guess all of us paleoconservatives are ‘red-state fascists’ now.......

Very mature, pal.

I wasn’t the one who called Justin, one of the most consistent old-right defenders, a “leftist”

“I wasn’t the one who called Justin, one of the most consistent old-right defenders, a “leftist””

No, you were pulling the race card on anyone that disagrees with you like a little Johny Cochran.

Raimondo’s commentary is indeed ‘leftish.’

Blatant disdain for working class whites, and tabula rasa apologetics for low black IQ.

That is the very core of modern day leftism.

“Blatant disdain for working class whites, and tabula rasa apologetics for low black IQ.”

Let’s switch this around shall we?:

“Blatant disdain for blacks and tabula rasa apologetics for low white IQ.”

Seems a pretty accurate description of some people’s opinions around here.  In other words, the black nationalists and white nationalists are both suffering from the same crap.

“Seems a pretty accurate description of some people’s opinions around here.  In other words, the black nationalists and white nationalists are both suffering from the same crap.”

And that is why you and your strawman attack dog ilk belong on an island with both of them.

Mr.Epstein,
Thanks for that very curious quote
from Rothbard that racilist science
is in fact:
“an operation in defense of
private property against assaults
by aggressors.”

I was floored by this.
Rothbard qualifies it with
the precondition of a libertarian
setting but to use it as a
defense of private property,
especially in a libertarian
utopia, seems unneccesary and
veiled.
In a libertarian setting private
property would move spontaneously
to those who employ it in its best
use. Why would the market require
a science of any kind to justify
efficiency?
Sounds fishy to me. Very fishy.

Please note that I used the
word “justify” which is all
a science of racilism can offer,
i.e. justification of acts that
would otherwise defy explanation.

Sorry to post again but…
In his quote isn’t Rothbard
acquiescing (although in reverse
order) to the very same
type of state sociological science
he otherwise condemns?
I’m over my head I know, but this
is alarming to me.

The country is going to be like Brazil, Mexico, Singapore, or Hawaii. They aren’t so bad get used to it.

They “aren’t so bad”? What is Brazil without this hemisphere’s Sugar Daddy, aka the United States? The answer is the-newly-responsible for-their-own technology-and-defense Brazil. In other words, a powerless sitting duck.

Every nation in the western hemisphere has had the option, and the luxury, of sitting out the military conflicts of the past 100 years thanks to the United States. Woe to these freeloaders when the curtain comes down on Pax Americana. Brazil and its neighbors will once again be forced to fight for their very existence instead of living under the USA security umbrella.

The failed state, narco-state Mexico isn’t “so bad”? Really Jack. Surely, you jest.

And Singapore sure is a beacon of liberty for the rest of the world. Gee, I wonder where Singapore would be without Pax Americana?

But I don’t wonder where Hawaii would be without Pax Americana because I know damn well that Hawaii would be under the iron boot of whatever dictatorship rises to prominence in Asia once Pax Americana disappears.

Jack, you are lacking understanding of the foundation on which the current era of world peace is built upon. This current world peace, which has produced ingrates like yourself, didn’t drop out of the sky. It was won on the battlefield.

The great irony here is that the reality of earned and unearned dividends eventually gets rammed home to every freeloader...and then the cycle begins anew.

Listen! Brazil hasn’t been in a real fight since the 1870’s. It doesn’t need the USA. I have never been there, but I know several rich men in there sixties, who love to go there for sex with young black and mullatto girls. Mexico is poor country but has a lot of nice people and climate. It doesn’t need the USA either. It has a tiny army and low taxes. Many Americans love the place and hundreds of thousands live there. We invaded the place twice and stole half their country. The natives of Hawaii had there country stolen from them and many want to seceede. No body needs us and frankly I can’t think of a war worth fighting. That includes WW2 as Pat Buchanan’s new book is about to prove. Americans were a lot more free under George the third than we seem to be at the present time. I had to change my name because there is another Jack who uses a capitol letter in his name. I was here first, almost from the beginning.

Wait a second. If statistics are the health of the state---and should be disregarded---then why is state intervention needed to correct the differences between the racial and ethnic groups?

As usual, Marcus Epstein, points out the simple inconsistencies of liberal/leftist idealogy.

One observation is the difference between liberals and leftists on this issue. Liberals are more motivated by the attempt to prove that they are socially and morally superior to the rest of the unwashed masses, by proving how “enlightened” they are to the subject of racial and ethnic differences.

While the leftists take absolute take absolute equality position as a matter of religious or ideological faith.

Marcus Epstein - major kudos for standing up to the PC Pravda police, comrade Raimondo and all the rest.

History will vindicate the brave few that stood up to these witch trials.