I’d be interested to see what comes out of this. The timing is not quite right though, because Bush, having been given everything on a silver platter in his life, doesn’t have the notion of not getting things his way. He’d oppose every good suggestion simply because it’s not comming from his Wall Street buddies, who also happen to be giant crooks. With the president-elect things could be worked out more productively I suspect.

This would be an opportunity for America to learn from its own mistakes. Not an east thing to do for a nation with no sense of yesterday, let alone history, who wants to keep partyin’ on no matter what.

What is clear from the current financial mess is that you can’t have the world’s dumbest, most uncultured, ignorant, irresponsible, and untempered people on earth be in charge of the earth’s money. After this crash American does not deserve to be in the driver’s seat anymore. And I hope that the world is able to yank the teenage drunkard from the steering wheel.

Good article. But Pat is wrong about Nixon taking us off gold in 1971. That introduced a decade of inflation—the stagflation of the 1970s malaise—that pushed the middle class into upper-income tax brackets, and so is the real cause of the stagnation in middle-class wages the past 37 years. And America STILL not being on gold allowed Bush-Greenspan-Bernanake to inflate the dollar since 2001 and so cause the current crisis. No new Bretton-Woods is needed. But America needs to return to the gold standard before any restoration of prosperty can occur. If we don’t go back to gold soon, the Chinese probably will, and first reap the benefits of a stable currency.

“Nixon’s was an act of necessity. The Europeans, with more dollars than they needed or wanted, were coming to cash them in and clean out Fort Knox. “

well why did they have more dollars than they needed or wanted?  THAT is the problem, not that they wanted gold for them

“Nixon’s was an act of necessity....
Given his recent book and a later sentence in this very essay, his use of ‘necessity’ is strikingly flawed.
In The Unnecessary War, Buchanan argued that declining powers should gracefully exit the stage; that WWI & II may have been avoided or limited had Britain not tried to hold on to the power and influence on the wane. The analogy to America is clear enough. But here Buchanan writes, “American unipolarity, which all professed to abhor, is indeed at an end.” That dependent clause, unless I’ve become blind to tone, suggests all should not have abhored American unipolarity; that the Euro’s should have just lapped it up.

Look for a new ‘International’ unit of value to be created that all currencies will measure their exchange rate against as a backdoor way to slip in an eventual world currency.  Bet money (whatever that might be worth) that new unit of value won’t be tied to gold or silver.

(Quote) “This looks less like 1944 than 1904, with the Brits in decline and half a dozen other great powers rising.” -Pat (end quote)

GREAT Pat, if that’s so.

Then maybe we’ll get out from under the almost 100 year old Yoke of our Fed?

I’m just thinking out loud now Pat, isn’t this (the following) how it is?

Ever since the Federal Reserve Act of I believe 1913 control of the U.S. currency was turned over to an *inter-national cartel of bankers, who now run USA, Inc. as if it were their own private company (which in effect it is.) This was not *merely formalization of a cartel of say American Bankers to whom the Congress in its infinite corruption, decided to outsource the function of the U.S. Treasury. It’s *international.

So this was not only NOT a Jeffersonian sort of thing to do: I.e. “Bankers are more dangerous than standing armies.” –Thomas Jefferson. It was ALSO *not a Hamiltonian sort of thing to do either.

Since then America, starting with WW One etc. and all through the 20th century (bloodiest in the history of world) has obviously been at cross purposes with itself, with the interests of its own people, for the obvious reason that the currency itself is controlled, and so the nation itself in effect is run by internationalists in behalf of their own interests i.e. the oligarchy; and not as is always alleged in the duplicitious media, in behalf of the American people.  American people have not elevated this up to consciousness for the most part.

So what all of this really boils down to if we were being honest with ourselves, would be a discussion of what now is in the interests of the international bankers, who have both dominated us and have been ruling over us now for almost a century.  And this would give us a better idea of what will happen, and how we ought to prepare for that eventuality if possible in advance. No?

Pat are we going back to the Future - 1904.  I’m down with it, dude.

“Globalists see in this worst of world financial crises since the 1930s what New Dealers saw in the Depression: an opportunity to geometrically augment government power and impose their visions upon mankind.”

BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!

I’m am concerned that the above may be true. From what I can see of the current powerful nations; the future doesn’t look pleasant for much of the world’s population.

Being the world’s reserve currency is part of the reason the U.S. has been declining ever since Breton Woods I.

It has made it easier for other countries to competitively devalue their currencies when they need to boost their exports and has allowed the U.S. to maintain the illusion of economic strength.

I would have thought that Pat would welcome a Breton Woods II if it meant the U.S would no longer have to shoulder this burden.

“Americans are not going to fund such a bank, nor cede it authority, nor abide by its dictates.”

Buchanan’s dreaming here.  The easy recent passage of our economic Patriot Act of 2008 and the puny public grumble that followed it prove that Americans will basically accept whatever they’re told to, particularly when (thanks to their government “education") they haven’t a clue what’s wrong, let alone how to fix it.  Both major candidates for president voted this fall to beggar this and countless future generations of Americans.  And Americans returned the favor by casting their votes overwhelmingly for both traitors.

We do not have the luxury of behaving like the Hapsburgs: learnt nothing and forgot nothing.
We need to become more nuanced in the use of words.
The hegemony of ponzy “international finance capitalism” is indeed very very dead. We now need to bury it before the putrid smell and the maggots chase us off the planet.
The question is how do we organize a new stable international finance and payments system.
No one is arguing that entrepreneurship, innovation should be suffocated, but we have seen for 300 years that “laissez faire” leads to monopoly capital and militarism and war, and that too needs to be buried.
What kind of economic system do we live in where 80% of the people live in homes under the delusion that they are the “owners” to discover some evil little worm on wall street really owns their destiny! and their home!

“Globalists see in this worst of world financial crises since the 1930s what New Dealers saw in the Depression: an opportunity to geometrically augment government power and impose their visions upon mankind.”

Yesteryear’s New Dealers and today’s Globalists are cut from the same cloth:  http://www.rooseveltmyth.com/docs/The_Revolution_Was.html

“No one is arguing that entrepreneurship, innovation should be suffocated, but we have seen for 300 years that “laissez faire” leads to monopoly capital and militarism and war, and that too needs to be buried.”

And you claim the Hapsburgs learned nothing...?

Jim R. put the finger right on the wound. I most agree with his comment, Thank you sir.

Quote: “Though the most famous economist of the age, J.M. Keynes, led the British delegation, his ideas--for a new world central bank and new world currency--were brushed aside by Harry White and the Americans.”

That point is important. We rejected Keynes the first time and set the world on the course for development and we must reject the fascist Keynes again.

Central Banking and Globalism caused this mess so why should we create a more powerful Central Bank and cede even more national sovereignty?

this bretton woods thing is a side show.  the real issue is what we will have to give china for them to continue to fninance our debt and what happens if we find their demands to onerous.

also: http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom#page1

^ great long (9 page ) article on the subprime fiasco by the author of “liar’s poker” an infamous expose of wall street in the 80’s.

his assertian is that taking the investment banks public tranferred the risk to the shareholders and allowed wall street to dream up insane schemes like the subprime mortage scandal

(Quote, regarding my above post) “Jim R. put the finger right on the wound. I most agree with his comment, Thank you sir.” –Marius (end quote) …

Finally someone of good taste.  Therefore let me expand, as I am want to do, since I’m male. (humor)
Expand, as it were, re: the so-called american auto ‘bail outs’ which they are not. … Perhaps I should run for el’Presidente. James Paul River for el’Presidente.  ‘I’ll make only two promises. If elected I will serve, if given money to run, I will accept it. And I will only keep those 2 promises, for sure. At least you know, I’m *honest. Now, who wants to donnate the TANK for me to drive around in?’ … To my closest aids – “ain’t life grand??!??”

Here’s the rub, as Shakespeare would say.

This whole thing is almost comical. ANY big banker knows, as soon as an export of significant enough size is being shipped overseas (not sold domestically) and the Government is asked by the domestic American company for a loan guarantee (same as the auto industry is asking for, except to survive Domestically, in its own AMERICAN market, mind you) the guarantee to the exporting company is AUTOMATIC. What’s known as Ex-Im Bank or the Export-Import Bank of America, formerly known as Boeing’s Bank – (since Boeing got routine guarantees on all of its overseas business transactions), so ExIm simply issues the big Private Bank making the loan, a loan guarantee. Period. End of ‘story’, it doesn’t even make the press, never mind being billed in said media as a ‘bail out’.

The SCANDAL (why it’s comical) is that when an American Company in its own domestic market asks for such loan guarantees – it’s immediately billed in essentially a media owned by *international bankers (e.g. =. the Fed), and not owned by *American bankers per se, it’s billed in their *internationally owned (so-called ‘American’) media suddenly as a ‘bail out.’ It’s NOT a bail out, like those SAME international bankers just robbed us for - with their own $700 Billion dollar ‘bail out.’

You see the humor?  It means the *internationalists who are LEVERAGED, UNDERWRITTEN, AND INSURED by the U.S. taxpayer could care less, OF COURSE, if American companies per se survive. They get theirs, every which way they want to take it, including from MITI, or, Japaness Government funded, Japanese car makers etc., etc. And they especially get theirs from the U.S. taxpayer, because the internationalists own our media, and Americans have been kept in the Dark for nigh unto a century now, HOW their own system ironically, actually works.  And believe this or not, that’s been the American system, known as our ‘Fed.’ No one can deny this.  You’re just not going to read about it in America much, understandably.

I, frankly speaking, think it’s funny - well, funny, too.

Maybe Americans will smarten up?

Here’s Shakespeare on it:

“All this the world well knows, yet none knows well
To SHUN the heaven that leads me/(men) to this hell.”
___________________________________________

We all in reality know very well that those “International” bankers aren’t international at all. They’re all of the same stock.

We also all know very well that these people own us all, lock stock and barrel. They hate and despise us, but we’re to dumb to hate them back.

Finally, we all know very well that these people will NEVER freely give up their power. They bragged about how they owned the “fat of the land” in the Bible. How they let the Egyptians starve while they at the same time kept all the land’s food locked up in storage houses. Just as they do with the welth of our times.

They’ll drive us to the brink of starvation. Then they’ll start another war.

These people simply aren’t normal. They’re mentally pathological and will keep on doing what they’ve been doing since the beginning of time. Craving more power, becoming greedier, hating those they parasitize on.

So, by all means, keep on theorizing, but it won’t mean a thing in the real world. Maybe Obama will save us all? Yeah, maybe one day when we all fart out flying monkeys out of our asses.

Until then, cling to your guns, your bibles and your suspicion of strangers. After all, it was hardly gay rights and affirmative action that built anything in the history of the civilized world.

Ok folks here is the situation report:

1.Real goods and services comprise 10 % of our GDP, the rest is the fluff we are trying to “bail out”
2. Monetarist Friedmanite “economics” has been proven to be a sham, reaganism was built on delusion.
3 The real prophets of where we were heading were people like Gareth Porter and Prahalid who in their book “competive Strategy” pointed out over 20 years ago that the dessimation of U.S. manufacturing at the hands of the Japanese posed unprecedented dangers.
4. While fawning on principles of “laissez faire” and monetarism we have been practising the worst form of fiscal deficit financing that cannot be dignified with reference to Keynes.
5. There is a huge disconnect between what we espouse and what we are doing.
6. we have no cluse how to fix things, Paulson had one idea and when he saw what the Brits were doing he was forced to abandon his plan and copy Brown’s plan.
7. Now we have come to the point where we are begging the Chinese to dictate a new order as long as they will give us some alms.
8. This has happened because we produce 10% real goods and thought that wars and wall street’s ponzy schemes would save us.
This is truly pathetic, We ahve no intellectuals even able to understandf the problem.
Only God or the Chinese Communists can save our children’s futures.

Jack Ruby said it best: “a whole new form of gov’t has taken over this country” after JFK’s death.  Yeah, and it will not surrender to the likes of anybody.  The American people had better wake up soon, and stop buying into the latest Uncle Tom toady of the military-industrial complex.

It wasn’t the Habsburg family that “learned nothing and forgot nothing.” That was the Bourbons--which might explain why our sovereigns’ throne outlasted the Bourbons’ by almost 120 years!

Sorry, but that snark raised my patriotic hackles.

Didn’t the US contribute most of the gold to the IMF?  Didn’t we get a veto power over the IMF because of this?  If we loose that veto to China etc then we should take back our gold?

Whether it was the Hapsburgs or the Bourbons is moot. They were all inbred and are all very dead right now.
The point is we need to stop navel gazing, and wake up and smell the coffee if we want to avoid their fate.
We need to be coming up with ideas to rescue our economic future, that is what i thought the conversation was all about.