GMF was Scots.

The world awaits a convincing rebuttal of Kevin Macdonald’s work on Jews. Derb tried and failed, Gottfried too.

I suspect the trouble his detractors have is that he’s substantially right - just like Jared Taylor in his field.

- I agree fully with your recommendation of Vdare. And it’s worth mentioning that ‘Alien Nation’ can now be downloaded free at vdare.com

Do you just not endorse Professor MacDonald? Do you not endorse Jared Taylor and/or Brenda Walker as well?

Peter Brimelow is an American hero, and VDARE is a great website.  Besdies fighting the good fight on immigration, and regularly featuring the indispensable Steve Sailer, it also annually takes up a fight near and dear to my heart, the defense of Christmas.  In fact, Peter Brimelow has been fighting that fight longer than anyone I know, well before Bill O’Reilly ever mentioned “the War on Christmas,” and I am proud to contribute an essay each year on this important topic.

VDare, foe of political correctness in all its forms, is simply one of the best websites out there.  It is one of the few websites (along with Chronicles and TakiMag) that I visit every day.

Dear Gaurav Ahuja,

I enthusiastically disassociate myself from Walker for her views on abortion, MacDonald for his theories about Jews, and Taylor for his racialism. However, VDare publishes enough people whose ideas fascinate me that it’s always worth a visit.

Another good post and it just so happens, that VDare is right under Taki on my favorites.

Well… if the next great war is fought on purely scatological terms, we can be sure John Ball will emerge as the Arsenal of Demagoguery.

The value of websites like V-DARE is their defiant inclusion of writers disliked and even disowned by our stagnant, happy-talk mainstream. It doesn’t matter that readers agree or disagree with everything or anything V-DARE’s contributors post. MacDonald points out that after the publication of the Mearsheimer-Walt paper on the Israeli Lobby, the American academy for the most part closed ranks, condemned the very idea that such a lobby existed and ignored the issue. Whether the students and faculty agreed or disagreed with Mearsheimer and Walt was simply not on the table. The subject was clapped into an intellectual gulag.

There were key factors that helped turn this country into the richest, most powerful nation in human history. Like it or not, capitalism and the Industrial Revolution were a couple. But the real boost was a social compact that allowed – even encouraged – a free and open exchange of ideas. That such a revolutionary approach has been so degraded and crippled on American campuses condemns us to a future as backwater, third-rate banana republic.

John Ball: I’ve praised you in this space, and read attentively when you’ve posted thoughtfully. So may I ask you, in a friendly way: Could you please try to be a little more CIVIL on here? It is taking undue advantage of the liberty of cyberspace, ungentlemanly, and above all unCHARITABLE to denounce people in profane terms for intellectual positions--particularly those which they deny holding.

Just for instance: Mr. Hoermann has denied that he holds sympathies for the evil government which once ruled his country, and in several places specifically denounced that ideology and its founder. You have no warrant to continue to question him about it, unless he makes arguments which specifically, necessarily imply that when he posted before, he was lying. Given that the accusation you are making against him could actually land him in PRISON in his home country, I should think that more reticence on your part is called for.

But this is about more than him. Mr. Spencer, and Mr. Sarto before him, have tried to keep these fora from degenerating into name-calling and personal attacks--the better to allow for intellectual exchange. Could you please help them keep up that standard?

Were Mr. Ball’s and Mr. Mr. Hoermann’s posts removed? Our Nazis (and Cultural Marxists) are indeed worthy of strong language.

Mr. Zmirak: groups are known by the company they keep. With LewRockwell.com I have some disagreements. But that group keeps good company. VDare doesn’t.

Will Taki Top Drawer now become not only among some of its writebackers but also among its writers a Camorra of Judeophobes, Antisemites, Racialist Nationalists, Ethnic Nationalists, Fascists, Clerical Fascists, Luddites, and the economically retarded?  I pray not!  Or even unconciously Neocon by supporting the Neocon policies of (1) Lincoln Idolatry and central statist nationalism, (2) Hamiltonian high tariffs, (3) a jihad against “Islamofascism”, and (4) support of the irredentist nationalist claims of another small nation “not worth an American life or an American dollar” (in this case not Israel)?

If so, men like John Lukacs, Claes Ryn, Richard Gamble, Roger Scruton, and George Panichas will have further excuses not to publish here.

I note that the editor correctly removed the posts about which I was speaking above.  Mr. Cundiff--I think you have a great deal of value to say. I think it would be much more interesting if you addresses ideas and critiqued them, and gave up the game of “pin the epithet on the Rightist.” It reminds me of the old habit some Catholics had of “refuting” position by labeling it: “Well Hayek is a Materialist...” “Maritain was a modernist...” with no further thought required. For heavens’ sake, I AGREE with you most of the time, and I find this sort of thing tiresome. ENGAGE the ideas, give up the labeling and arguing back and forth about labels. It’s futile.

Looks like some comments were removed.
You should always ask yourself the
question: would a rap star be offended?
If not, well, I think I can handle it.

I don’t think this is any worse than a
requirement for self-censorship either by
the site or any oh-so-particular columnist.

Some people have a thick hide: one-millionth of an inch thick.

JOHN ZMIRAK “ENTHUSIASTICALLY DISASSOCIATES” FROM THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY JARED TAYLOR AND KEVIN MACDONALD.  THE PRINCIPAL REASON WHY MANY OF US SUPPORT THE PALEOCONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT IS THAT WE REJECT NEOCONSERVATIVE ORTHODOXY AND ITS SUCCESS AT SILENCING AND SMEARING CRITICS ON THE RIGHT.  THUS, PAT BUCHANAN, JOE SOBRAN, THE LATE SAM FRANCIS, AND OTHERS WERE OSTRACIZED FROM THE ESTABLISHMENT.  UNFORTUNATELY, NOW WE HAVE THE PALEOCONS ENFORCING ORTHODOXY.  SCOTT MCCONNELL NOW CONTROLS THE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE AND TURNED THE ONCE PROVOCATIVE MAGAZINE INTO A BORING READ.  STEVE SAILER IS RESTRICTED TO FILM REVIEWS.  TAC RUNS A HIT-PIECE ON KEVIN MACDONALD’S CULTURE OF CRITIQUE THAT WOULD MAKE NATIONAL REVIEW PROUD.  CANDID DISCUSSION OF RACE, ETHNICITY AND JEWISH INFLUENCE ARE NOT PERMITTED.

Apparently the use of the “N-word” on Takimag “ist verboten.”

Typical.

They have a blogger that writes an article, linking to Vdare.com, but don’t have the guts when someone steps up to the plate and really “lays it out”.  I honestly wouldn’t expect anything else.  As my original post said: everyone is dancing around the issues, too afraid to be TOO “politically incorrect”, but dishonest enough to try and be nice about being a little “politically incorrect”.  Does the “N-word” offend you?  Oh, it does?  Well I am sorry that you are offended by reality.  It’s a good thing you have this website you can censor, thus saving yourself from having to live in reality.  You see, I live in what is called a “reality based community”, but you must live in the community that, when it acts, it changes the community that I live in, and then I must react to it.  Sounds familiar?  That is the world of the so-called “neoconservatives”, the Straussian community.  The community that refuses to “call a spade a spade”, because it upsets people, instead “the Noble Lie” is propagated in order to help the people move along as they should, within their pitiful “reality based community”.

Shame, shame.

Part of being a conservative (much less a Christian) is holding up certain standards of civility, not needlessly using language that, however you explain it, offends millions of one’s fellow citizens --including decorated war veterans, Catholic priests, little old ladies, and thousands of people who will get into Heaven aeons before either Andrew Capp or myself. I’m glad Mr. Spencer insists on such standards here.

johnt you are right.  the american conservative has become another neocon publication...the leftist editor scott mcconnell and the pro-immigration new owner ron unz have banned all articles dealing with race or immigration.

In your expurgated comment you said that roughly 68% of “blacks” fall below the mean IQ of 100 for “whites.” How did you come up with “68%”?  This is a technical question.  I’m not addressing the merits of IQ tests, just wondering where the number came from.  I assume your response won’t be expunged.

@Andrew Capp

I meant to address the comment above to you.  My apologies.

As per the 68% number, I was mistaken.  I forget to include the end of the distribution tail.  The actual number would be closer to 84%.  The mean IQ is set at 100, with a standard deviation of 15.  If an average of a subset of the population (Negroes) have an IQ of 85 (as testing has found), then 84% will fall below the overall average of 100, with 16% falling above 100.  16% of Whites score below 85, whereas 50% of Negroes do so.  50% of Whites score below 100, whereas 84% of Negroes do so.  84% of Whites score below 115, whereas 97% of Negroes do so.  97% of Whites score below 130, whereas 99% of Negroes do so.  16% of Negroes score below 70 (mental retardation), whereas 2.5% of Whites do so.

Andrew Capp:  That’s what I was driving at.  Easy mistake to make.  Thanks for the reply.

I hold a bit different view than most and hold no grudge toward Israel, or the Jewish religion/people as they, as I see it, are being used as a means to rationalize empire building in the middle east.

Think about it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andrew Capp, lets say,,if you were to adopt a black child, how would he/she score in these IQ tests?

Sid Cundiff said: “Will Taki Top Drawer now become not only among some of its writebackers but also among its writers a Camorra of Judeophobes, Antisemites, Racialist Nationalists, Ethnic Nationalists, Fascists, Clerical Fascists, Luddites, and the economically retarded?  I pray not!”

“If so, men like John Lukacs, Claes Ryn, Richard Gamble, Roger Scruton, and George Panichas will have further excuses not to publish here.”

-- I am sure you did not intend to include among your hate-list ethnic and racial nationalists, since as far as I know all your heroes and every writer at this site support Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish ethno-state, and the basis for inclusion as a Jew is ancestry (race).

Why do so many support a fundamental right for Jews that they deny to other peoples?

Recently Scruton defined conservatism as a defence of a particular community (and we all know our Burke). Jews have no fear of defining their community by ethnicity and race, or demanding from the likes of Scruton that he permits this for them. Yet the same Jewish organisations attack as ‘racist’ and ‘anti-semitic’ anyone who meekly asks for the same advantage for his people - and all the brave free-thinking ‘conservatives’ fold.

It’s the program of the ‘Authoritarian Personality’ carried off to the letter (the AP - single most influential and harmful book of the C.20th was published by the American Jewish Committee btw.)

Sid, assuming you’re non-tribe, stop being an Uncle Tom, start being a man.

<<Andrew Capp, lets say,,if you were to adopt a black child, how would he/she score in these IQ tests?>>

Good question.  I’m not convinced that the research has proven the scores are genetic and not environmental.  Negro children raised in White families typically score higher than Negro children raised in Negro “families” (sic).  On the other hand, when Negro children raised in White families hit puberty, their scores start to fall - it could be that they then identify themselves as “Negro”, and embrace the decrepit culture of their fellow Negroes.

RE: Tory Conservative,
Not as much courage as it does for a nobody with nothing to lose to embrace an extremist anonymously over the Internet--using a pseudonym.

One of the problems of political correctness is that a certain number of people will canonize anyone who isn’t PC, even if said person’s positions are objectionable according to objective, Christian criteria.  What makes a person worthy of approbation isn’t that PC folks reject him—that only gives those same PC critics more power as the arbiters of how one thinks.  I won’t praise Trotsky because Stalin condemns him, nor vice versa. 

There is a saying, “Don’t call a badger a bishop.” A badger is a relatively small animal that fights ferociously against larger creatures, such as dogs, wolves, and bears.  Yet determined resistance against a larger opponent doesn’t make one’s stance moral.  An underdog is not necessarily right, and sometimes the underdog is actually the aggressor.  If the SPLC focussed all of its attention on actual neo-Nazis, skinheads, Klansmen, etc., combated them by lawful and moral means, and did not exaggerate the threat they pose, then I would support the SPLC.  Just because the powerful “wolves,” “bears,” “dogs,” etc., of the world are opposed to a given political stance, policy, program, or ideology does not make that policy correct. 

I say this as a warning against the tendency of some to refrain from criticizing, or even from critiqueing, people simply because they are “anti-Establishment.”

As for witch-hunts, on the internet I’ve seen paleocon witch-hunts intended to “out” people as neocons.  Neocons aren’t the only ones who attempt to assert their own specific understanding of what “conservatism.” Double-edged swords cut both ways.

Mr.Zmirak, your point about we the anonymous is unfair because you only make it to those whose opinions you disagree with.

You say we embrace ‘extremists’. Can you tell me what is extreme in Jared Taylor’s philosophy that the whole establishment does not embrace for minorities including Jews?

I know you think it’s important to western freedom that Israel remain a Jewish state. I disagree with the idea that Israel is a part of the west or a talisman of freedom for any culture - but unless you allow the (other) peoples of the west to discriminate in the same fashion as you allow for Jews, what ‘west’ will remain?

The responses to this post point up one of the reasons that we paleos are such a small and relatively helpless faction. Here I put up a ringing endorsement of a very controversial paleo Website, registering along the way--in mild terms--the fact that I did not “endorse” the views of three of the writers. I didn’t attack them, label them, write to their employers and try to have them fired… And yet a host of commenters have taken after me as if I’d pulled a David Frum.

In other words, if one doesn’t endorse every jot and tittle of the most “out-there” positions of the most controversial men in America, one is a coward and a traitor to the movement.

Yeah, that’s a great recruitment strategy.  Traditional conservatism is favorable to religion, but it doesn’t CONSTITUTE a religion, with canons of doctrine that must be accepted or rejected, on divine authority. I already have such a religion, and trust me, it is more than enough.

On a website devoted to “the national question,” I fail to see how Brenda Walker’s position on abortion is relevant.  The most potentially significant politician addressing the “national question” was assassinated in the Netherlands several years ago and he was a gay Marxist.  The Muslim world abhors abortion, but I believe we would find little solace in that in the event of a Muslim cultural takeover after we discover our entire way of life upended.  Bottom line: I can pick out disagreements I have with each of those you mentioned, some more than others, but your singling out of these individuals struck me as having a gratuitous quality, particularly in light of dinner with R. Emmett Tyrell, a “surrender monkey” if ever there was one on the very national question which defines VDARE.  In that light it is not hard to understand the hostility to an otherwise very good blogpost.

You did label Taylor an extremist, and I asked you to explain why.

Why is it “out there” for someone to represent the interests of whites in the debates about race when other groups are permitted such a voice? Brimelow (and Swain!) agreed with Taylor that this was both fair and inevitable in the round-table at frontpagemag.com. Why do you disagree?

Smearing as extremists and accepting as controversial those like Taylor and Macdonald who merely request an end to racist double standards directed against their peoples is a clue to why the real conservative movement is small - you have been corrupted and the people you are supposed to represent but refuse to speak for can see that.

I say “let a hundred flowers bloom”. Let’s not ape our enemies and set up our own system of PC. As long as a man is civil, let him have his say. That includes the “racialists” and “anti-Semites”. Let’s not let our enemies define the claases of people with whom we can associate. By their criteria, Steve Sailer and Peter Brimelow would be verboten, not to mention neo-Confederates, traditonal Catholics and Royalists (none of whom I consider persona non grata).

The subject of abortion is relevant because it is the most fundamental issue of our time--and would remain so if the last white couple contracepted themselves out of existence. Combined with contraception, it is the reason that Europe will soon be a Moslem enclave. But that doesn’t matter, does it? Let’s focus instead on measuring IQ scores, measuring heads with calipers, concocting conspiracy theories, and accusing each other of betrayal. Cripes, what a sad bunch you racialists are.

I think the following comment by Lawrence Auster, from a few days ago and in response to a reader at his site View From the Right, expresses my own point of view and speaks to several of the points you’ve raised: [paragraph]
“Without commenting on individuals, I would say that your general point is central to my thinking and my idea of traditionalism. Traditionalism means an appreciation for what makes us what we are, all the dimensions of what we are, what our civilization is. A view that reduces us and our civilization to race, or that makes race the primary factor, is woefully incomplete and distorted. Race is a part of the structure of reality that makes us what we are, and liberalism denies that. But God and transcendent truth are also part of the structure of reality that makes us what we are, and the Darwinian racialists deny that. [paragraph]
“Because they deny this fundamental aspect of existence on which our civilization and any society is founded, the Darwinian racialists are unable to articulate a meaningful politics and are unable to defend Western civilization effectively. The Darwinian racialists help us understand the truth of the racial question, which, while it may not have been important in past ages, is of indispensable importance for us, living as we do under liberalism which requires the total mixing of all races in our society and thus our extinction as a distinct people and civilization; but the Darwinian racialists are unable to relate the racial question to the larger whole of which it is a part.  [paragraph]
“Most Christians today are anti-racialists, a view incompatible with the survival of the West. Most racialists are non-Christians and reductive materialists, a view incompatible with the survival of the West. The key insight is that Western man and Western civilization are multi-layered. A view that takes just one part of the whole and treats it as the whole is no good. The West cannot survive unless it goes beyond these reductive, partial views and starts to see things whole. The true thinkers of Western civilization, the authors of the Hebrew Bible, Plato, Aristotle, the founders of Christianity, Augustine, were never reductionists, they saw the multileveled nature of reality, and man as its epitome. Modern Western man has lost that. Western survival depends on regaining it.”
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009679.html

“Tory Conservative” ain’t one.  Again a Stormfronter tactic, borrowed from the Ur-Stormfronters, Benito and Adolf, of trying to hide who they are.

IQ Tests prove nothing.  Aside from being highly inaccurate, intelligence is anything but wisdom, Those of us who have taught professionally know that the biggest fools are highly intelligent.  Less intelligent folk generally go either with folk wisdom, tested over a 1000 years, or with pop culture.

Speaking of fools, Flashman, another coward with respect to his name, is too foolish to be worthy of an answer.  Probably Flashman, “Tory Conservative”, “Real Conservative”, etc. is just the same man; he uses other fake names as well, a tactic to make the Browns look more numerous than they really are. 

“Caper”, on the other hand is talking wisdom!

Sid, take Zmirak’s advice.  Stop with the juvenile labeling. 

For one, I’m proud of my race, The White Race.  If left-wingers like Sid want to “purge” me for it, so be it.

“We remain a hunted people. Now you think you have a destiny to fulfill in the land that historically has been ours for forty thousand years. And we’re a new Mestizo nation.”

“Our devil has pale skin and blue eyes…”

“We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him.”

– Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, founder of La Raza

“Except for a small number of pure European blood, 30% of Mexicans are Amerindian, and 60% are Mestizo.  We are not Western.  We are of Aztlan.”

“Around the year 2040, whites will become a minority in the United States and believe me it will be payback time.”

- Pro-Immigration Activist, Jorge Sanchez

“And the one idea is, how we are going to exterminate white people because that in my estimation is the only conclusion I have come to. We have to exterminate white people off the face of the planet to solve this problem.”

- African Studies professor, Dr. Kamau Kambon

“Blond hair and blue eyes are a biological defect.”

“The white race is a disease and the only cure is a bullet. The rule of whites is history. Soon they will be our serfs. It’s now the Age of the Brown Man.”

- Hindu nationalist, Ramesh Sharma

“The goal of abolishing the white race is on its face so desirable that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition other than from committed white supremacists. Make no mistake about it we intend to keep bashing the dead white males, and the live ones, and the females too, until the social construct known as ‘the white race’ is destroyed–not ‘deconstructed’ but destroyed.”

- Jewish studies professor, Dr Noel Ignatiev

.

Is anybody as tired as I am of the long list of racist quotes most recently copy/pasted by “The Real World”, but publshed dozens of times under various nicks in both these forums and those of Chronicles? We understand that the author(s) are trying to promote white racism by giving publicity to various non-white racists.  OK, but do the author(s) now have anything original to say, or is the superiority of his/their intelligence simply proved by mastering the copy/paste function on the computer?

Thanks for posting that, Michigander. Auster presents quite a reasonable, balanced synthesis, with which I largely agree.

@Caper,

What the PC crowd want to do is set up a simplistic right vs. wrong.  They pay much attention to skinheads, nazis, klansmen as a way to set up the groups that they can throw the rest of us into if we disagree with their pc views.  The pc crowd no doubt like to see a certain number of people gravitate toward a neo-nazi group to lend credibility to their constant warnings against such groups.  For most of us however their warnings ring hollow as we see little threat from these groups which are by nature small because after all that is the appeal.

Mr. Nucci—Yes, I agree that the SPLC, the media, the schools, and the feds trump up the threat posed by the real racist, neo-Nazi thugs, etc., in order to smear other groups by lumping them together with them.  That is why I stipulated that I would support the SPLC *only* if they focussed on real groups that really are objectionable, if they used moral and legal means to do so, and if they did not exaggerate the threat.  My point was that simply being “anti-SPLC” is not sufficient to make someone a “good guy,” as some of the supposed “underdogs” the SPLC attacks (like Stormfront and the Aryan Nations) deserve vilification.  Don’t call the badger a bishop.

Only whites are brainwashed enough to forgo the most sound principle of organization in multi-cult politics--that of race. 

Perhaps you of the older generations think you’re doing the noble thing by bringing the knife of “culture” or “the west” to the gunfight of race politics, but it will only be seen as weakness and folly by your children and grandchildren as we inevitably decide to fight back against those who war on us along racial lines.

Tell us Dietrich, from what chapter of your favorite bedtime reading, The Turner Diaries, did you take your drivel. Indeed, of what chapter of The National Alliance are you a member?

“Tell us Dietrich, from what chapter of your favorite bedtime reading, The Turner Diaries, did you take your drivel. Indeed, of what chapter of The National Alliance are you a member?”

I’m just telling you what I see.  That will be the first and last time you’re troubled with my opinions, as I’ve been barred from commenting here.

You may now return your heads to the sand from whence they came.

First, I think John Zmirak deserves credit for praising Vdare. This is not quite as brave as it once would have been ... even the opinion blog

... of the LA Times now occasionally links to Vdare ... to be sure not because the bloggers approve, but a link is at least indication that the site is now on this side of the cordon sanitaire.

Second, I generally agree with his perception that paleos are quick to turn on each other, just as other groups are. However, I think part of this sensitivity is due to knowing that paleo opinions are somehow viewed by the mainstream as beyond the pale , as it were. It is doubly painful then when criticized by someone who was formerly considered sympathetic. Remarks about ‘cranial calipers’ don’t help.

@Casper,

I am in full agreement with you.  I was just making the point that I think groups like the SPLC will actually hope to get a few individuals into making a badger a bishop so that the SPLC can even further their agenda.  I certainly don’t identify with any Nazi groups but I do see them as much less of a threat than groups like the SPLC who wield a lot of power and who I have even received literature from promoting their wall of tolerance.  If that isn’t a pun waiting to happen I don’t know what is.

sorry, Caper, not Casper.  My mistake.

“I’m just telling you what I see.  That will be the first and last time you’re troubled with my opinions, as I’ve been barred from commenting here.”
Bravissimo!  Let “Jupiter”, a character from Shelley’ Prometheus Unbound, be the next!

@Jupiter,

But won’t whites as a minority then be privileged to promote themselves as a victim group minority?  On the day we become a minority all the privileges of that status that has been built into the system will then accrue to us. Or am I being overly optimistic?

T Van Os-something wrote,

“I say “let a hundred flowers bloom””

So did Chairman Mao.

I’ve lived for years as a member of the native born white minority in North Hollywood, the Coachella Valley, and now Corpus Christi.  My life has been greatly enriched by the non-whites and immigrants I have met, become friends with and continue to meet and befriend.

It is amazing how naive and even genocidal that most whites have become. As our numbers dwindle some/many still cling to the notion of proposition and egalitarianism.

In fact, Latino voters may make McCain president if he becomes the
Republican nominee. And if another Republican gets the nod, so many Latinos
will vote Democratic that records will be broken…

...Nothing could be farther from the truth! ... [To] the overwhelming
majority of Latinos, especially those who live in the major urban centers of
this nation, illegal immigrants are not foreigners who represent some kind
of threat; they are our friends and neighbors. Sometimes they are even our
relatives. Those who don’t think we will vote to help them are sadly
mistaken.

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2008/jan/16/mccain-gives-latinos-leverage/?printer=1/

As Bob Whitaker has hit on anti-racism means anti-white
even for “respectable” conservatives.  So we are lectured
by two men polar opposites Zmirak who uses Catholic
wordist doctrine and Cundiff who uses the words of the
Jewish prophets Freud and Horkheimer.  And the irony is
that neither men or their allies have ever thought to
apply their logic to other than white men. I dare say
that in itself smacks of “white supremecism.”

“Andrew Capp, lets say,,if you were to adopt a black child, how would he/she score in these IQ tests?”

Black children adopted by white, middle-class families start out with IQs neared to the white norm than their black peers, but as they get older, their IQs regress toward the black mean of 85.  Look up the Minnesotta Scarr Adoption Study, including the follow-up where they retested the kids ten years later. 

This is most likely due to the waning effect that envorinment has on IQ.  Twin studies have shown IG gaps for identical twins raised in different environments early on in childhood (with the twin in the better environment having the higher IQ) shrinking to nil as the twins aged.  The most reasonable explanation for this is that IQ at an early age can get an artificial boost from being in a good environment, but that the effects of environment wear off as we age. 

The Minnesota Scarr Adoption Study also found that bi-racial children who were mistakenly labelled “black” by the adoption agency and, subsequently, went on to self-identify as black (unaware of their white heritage) ultimately had IQs midway between the white and black means.  There is no conceivable environmental effect that could account for this. 

I am not a white nationalist, but if you think that racial differences in intelligence are meaningless or don’t have any real world effect, then you are a fool.

Crikey, I need an editor.  Sorry for the typos in my previous post, kind of distracted.

It sounds as if Zmirak and TAC are submitting to the neocons.  I’m not surprised.  I stopped subscribing to TAC years ago, dut to its general avoidance of topics of race, immigration, and culture.  I mean, how many different articles on the Iraq War can TAC come up with?  It sounds like a broken record at times.

And anyway, can Catholics such as Zmirak even be trusted to comment authoritatively on race and immigration?  Christianity, at least its Western variant, is devoted to universalism and egalitarianism, both of which have proved to be detrimental (fatal?) to Europeans and European-descended people.  The RC Church is relentless in its advocacy of mass third world immigration and the Multi-Cult.  (I write as someone educated at Jesuit prep schools and universities.)

VDARE.com continues to be relevant because Brimelow recognises tha National Question is the principal issue of our time.

The future of politics and military/security issues in Europe and the US will be based around tribe, race, and civilisation.  This is lost on the American conservative movement, such as it is.  Most conservatives, sadly, would still prefer to drink tea whilst discussing Waugh and Chesterton than get their hands dirty actually doing something to fight for the interests of white Americans and Western civilisation.

The future is going to be nasty.  I know this sounds beyond the pale right now, but I sincerely and seriously believe the political situation in Europe and the US will descend at some point to actual civil war.  Zmirak, do you know how to operate a rifle?

Why do I always get the impression that people who predict race war or civil war are actually overjoyed at the prospect?  Like true progressives they claim that what they want is inevitable.  Like true revolutionaries they are eager for blood.

1. Marc conspicuously failed to give a link where readers could judge what he says. Ah, my friends, I shall treat you with more respect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

Go there and you will see that Marc, too cowardly to use his real name, has distorted this matter quite grossly.  The results of the sampling are variously interpreted, and the genetic interpretation, not done (by the way) by real geneticists, is disputed.  And Jensen has some very solid critics indeed.  See also the Wiki q.v. “race and intelligence”—and go there before Marc or his buddies change the article. There you will find more disputed findings and counter findings.

These disputed findings, and given that no real biological geneticist makes a cultural claim or a claim about intelligence, means simply that we can not use such a study to support a policy—or to support an honest political ideology.

Real genetics scholars will tell you that must because Mr. Tall marries Mr. Tall in no way means that their kids will be tall. 

Further point of fact: Hernstein and Murray said that IQ scores for Jews in 1910 were low!  So much for genetic based intelligence. I suspect that at that time the Chinese and Japanese tested the same.

I have also said many times that these studies make no effort to distinguish among West Indian Blacks, the pre-1808 Blacks, or African-Africans in the USA, or say among Khoisan, Bantu, and Niloite—or for that matter among Hungarian-Finnish, Greeks, Indo-Iranians, Basque, Celtic, Teutonic, Italic, and Slavic—just for starters.  And such studies just don’t exist.  So the report to which Marc refers isn’t scientific, because the sampling is neither specific as to genetic background nor broad enough. The study, stupidly, just assumes there are “White” people and “Black” people.  One might as well test the intelligence of right and left handed children, or blue and brown eyes.

Ultimately until an intelligence gene or DNA strand can be found, no one can ultimately show the cause-effect correlation.  Ditto a Beethoven gene for Germans and a Leonardo gene for Italians.

Case closed.

Marc loves the word “fool”, and he is wise to so love.  Most of the fools whom I know have very high intelligence.  The correlation between intelligence and wisdom or maturity doesn’t exist—as any teacher can tell you.

2. William of OC, probably the same tired, stupid, and cowardly Nazi who uses other pseudonyms, in his risible writeback, serves all the same a good purpose.  Fascists, fascists, Nazis and other racialists and nationalists, to say nothing of Marxists, utterly despise the Christian Faith, and especially the Catholic Faith.  Clerical Fascists, the useful idiots of these people, who sympathize with Fascists and fascists because such bash Marxists, forget that Fascists and fascists don’t sympathize with them, and given the opportunity, Fascists and fascists will give their useful idiots the axe (or should I say “gas"). Our house Nazi, in his writeback, gives the game away.  Someone should have read him first his Miranda Rights.

(1) “Eager for blood”?  I take that as a compliment.  I’m tired of seeing my people humiliated and routed and sickened at watching our country stolen from us before our very eyes.  If encouraging white Americans—you know, the people who actually founded, developed, populated, and ran America—to do something about our dispossession and persecution is interpreted as being “eager for blood,” then so be it.  When the shooting starts, Kirt, you can stay in the rear along with the women and children.  The liberation struggle is about to begin.

(2) The same goes with you, Sid. “Cowardly Nazi”?  I’m neither cowardly nor a nazi; I’m actually quite upfront about my views on race and culture, and what I think needs to be done.  And I’m not afraid to voice my opinions to traitors such as yourself.  Your comments remind me that the real enemy aren’t necessarily poor Hispanics, Asians, and Blacks, but the white Marxists (of both Left AND Right) who use non-whites as shock troops to denigrate, assault, and oppress White America.  You will reap what you sow.

Mr. Cundiff, for your edification, please read the several posts over on Chronicles “Illinois Black Code” article about “how not to feed a troll.” *You* are partly responsible for all these racialist quotations on these blogs, as you dignify these guys with comment.  For someone who wants to purge all these commentators and comments, you do your fair share of provoking them.  Please spare us all.

Tell us, Caper, how does one purge all these commentators who believe race & culture don’t matter and the U.S. is merely an abstract notion?  Educate us.  I for one would love to know how to get rid of all these Neocons.

I think many of the people posting at TakiMag who attack racial realists would probably be better off joining the Democratic Party, or better yet not voting at all.

Folks who deny the signficance of race are fooling themselves and harming the American conservative movement, such as it is. You can’t deny human nature forever you know. Blood will out.

Caper has a point and there is probably not more than one or two of these frustrated sociopaths using dozens of different nicks.

By ‘frustrated sociopaths’ you mean Republicans, I take it?

Among others.

We stand up to evil, not appease it or ignore the proverbial 600lb Nazi/Fascist in the room, hoping he will go away.

Well, would you mind creating your own forum in which to have these debates, instead of helping them hijack every thread on these blogs?  There’s a time and there’s a place, Mr. Cundiff.  But that’s just my private request, of course.

Caper has much valuable to say. Alas, he also needs a course on metaphor and faulty analogy. Hijacking is coercive.  No one is coerced to read what I write, or to reply to it.

Well, that’s true, Mr. Cundiff.  I do have to scan all writebacks, however, if I wish to find comments that are more relevant to the topic that started the thread. 

Yet, I must admit, the topic here is Vdare, so racialism is a much more relevant topic on this particular page than it might be elsewhere.  And Mr. Zmirack did bring up the problematic associations of that site.  I, too, wish the racialists would buzz off.  I simply fear that giving them attention merely brings them back with greater ferocity.  Here, we differ on means, not ends.  Pax Christi tecum sit.

Mr. Zmirak, not Zmirack.  Urgh.

Lawrence Auster has commented on this post

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009718.html

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et cum spiritu tuo

John and Sid: You guys are hunting for the 800lb. Nazi gorilla in the room. Why do you assume it is me? Is it my German name?
If there are racists here, it is you two!
Just for those, who missed the wise words of John Ball and his wholesale hatred of “Krauts”:

Werner Hoermann wrote:

“Sid:
Isn’t it much more fun to see little John Ball reduced to sputtering range going on a rampage with foul language, as it so often happens?”

No, Werner, I never sputter.  But you do, and so did thirty (count them, 30) men of Hitler’s Luftwaffe when my Father shot them down in 1944 and 1945.

And those men didn’t deserve to be killed, but the German nation of THAT time - the Germany of your father, Mr Hoermann - yes, THAT Germany DID deserve to be conquered and humiliated, so that THAT kind of Germany would never dare to rise again.

And neither will you or your twisted dreams rise again, ever, Mr Hoermann.

You and YOUR kind of Germany lost the war.  Forever.  And I’m proud to say that my Father played a part in destroying YOUR kind of Germany and YOUR dreams of being a “Master Race”, Mr Hoermann.

And now I sing - along with my Father’s ghost:

“Ven der Fuehrer says, Ve IST de master race!
We day Heil!  (SPIT!) Heil!  (SPIT!) Right in der Fuehrer’s face!”

Mr Hoermann, and all Nazi apologists, I spit and piss in your faces.  You lost the war, forever.  “Heil!  (SPIT, PISS AND SHIT!) right in derrrr Fuehrerrr’s faaaaaaacee....” for eternity. 

Hoermann, you and your father and his people lost the war.  Suck it up and deal with it, because the entire WORLD will NEVER have any mercy on you and your kind.

You lost.  You are not the master race. 
Deal with it, you defeated Barbarian.

Posted by John Ball on Jan 18, 2008.

I guess we all appreciate a lively debate, but I still don’t know why he (along with his soulmate Sid Cundiff)reserves a special hatred for me.

Dear Mr. Hoermann,
Please don’t let uncivil remarks or ethnic hostility get you down. Vicious personal attacks are usually a sign of intellectual panic. Or at best, laziness.

Sid,

I didn’t provide a direct link to the Minnesota Scarr Adoption Study because I figured any yahoo could google it online. 

I’ve read the wikipedia article on the study (as well as the original study, though that was some time ago) and there was no misrepresentation on my part.  The fact is the black children adopted and raised by whites did not score on par with white children adopted and raised by whites on IQ tests.  Furthermore, the gap widened as the children got older, from 5 points at age 7 to 15 points at age 17, which is consistent with the idea that the gap is rooted in genetics, as twin studies have shown that genotypic and phenotypic IQ converge as people get older.  Furthermore, the 15 point difference is exactly the difference that we see between blacks raised by blacks and whites raised by whites on average, over and over again.  Finally, the bi-racial children, including those mistakenly believed to be full-blooded Afro-American by their parents, scored between the black and white children at both ages 7 and 17.  All this is in the wikipedia article.  All this is in the original study.  And all this is just as I originally said.  You can blow all the smoke you want, but the preponderence of evidence clearly favors a genetic explanation for the black-white IQ gap.  I’m sorry that you can’t see that, and that you feel a need to denigrate those who do. 

Further point of fact: Hernstein and Murray said that IQ scores for Jews in 1910 were low!  So much for genetic based intelligence. I suspect that at that time the Chinese and Japanese tested the same.

Can you cite where Hernstein and Murray say this?  Cause I’ve got their opus, The Bell Curve, right here and they say no such thing in it.  Murray also states at the link below that the story is a canard, which would explain why, despite all my asking, I have never been able to find anyone who can produce the study.  Perhaps you’ll be the first?

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/Jewish-Genius-10855

Mr. Zmirak, see what happens when you accept (without explanation) that Taylor and Macdonald and the like are controversial ‘out-there’ extremists - just as the AJC’s Authoritarian Persnality program demands for you but not for them?

-- Even the people claiming to defend western culture attack the peoples carrying that culture - yet defend other peoples carrying other cultures.

That’s the result of your anti-conservative “paleoconservatism” betrayal of community, and it signals the inevitable death of the west.

In a sane world Vdare would not to be controversial among real conservatives for promoting equal-rightists like Taylor and Macdonald - it would be considered racist and anti-gentile for carrying writers like you who deny to peoples happening not to be Jewish the same rights they defend for Jews.

@ Sid,

You are correct that the IQ test is really a waste as the one thing it definitely does not test is wisdom and one can in fact have a high IQ and still be a fool.

@Jupiter,

Even if I accept your view that race is important where do we go with that?  White pride parades and events? I see that the Bushs and Clintons and most of the neo-cons are white and I don’t feel all that proud about that.  See also Sids list of presidents who are also white.  My pride is fading fast.  Ok, I have decided to take a pass on your parade.
As much as you want us to be concerned for the white race you would think the other races are doing something to keep themselves racially pure but I don’t see that from here.  I see hispanics, Asians, blacks, and whites all intermarrying.

So my question what is it that you are proposing to promote the continuance of the white race that is not some eugenic authoritarian program that limits personal freedom?

@ John Zmirak,

Thank you for referring me to VDare.  I found Steve Sailers article about the Ron Paul newsletter a hilarious ripping of Kirchuk among others.  Great stuff.

M.Nucci - Hispanics, Asians, and Blacks barely let one another into their own countries (and yes, they’d use that phrase)- and contrary to your claim they tend to marry co-ethnics even in white majority countries. The race-mixing you see will not transform Asia or Africa, or even South America - just Europe, North America, Aust. and NZ. Only whites are on course to be blended out.

The coercion you claim to be concerned about already happens - just not in defence of whites, but against them. The populations of the countries transformed against their will by elite-globalist and ethnic activist scripted policies are its victims. So is every student, employee, and taxpayer.

If you are truly concerned about individual freedom, you have no grounds for objecting to secessionist movements whether racially based or not.

Naturally, Jupiter may have a different viewpoint.

***

Jared Taylor writes about Sam Francis today at Vdare, including a link to John Zmirak’s piece on university curricula. I think it’s worth reading:

http://www.vdare.com/taylor/080121_intro.htm

M. Nucci,

IQ correlates with all sorts of things, from educational achievement to criminality to having children out of wedlock to chronic welfare dependency.  Take a kid with an IQ of 80 and onw with an IQ of 120 and raise them in the exact same environment.  At age 30, the kid with the lower IQ will invariably have spent fewer years in school, earn less income, be much more likely to have gone to jail, etc…

The studies are out there.  Perhaps you should read them before you decide to airily dismiss IQ as useless.