Another great column Pat: I fear that we may be at the brink.

Buchanan does not understand history. Archduke Franz Ferdinand’s plan of having Croatia made a co-equal of Austria and Hungary in a the Empire of the Austrians Hungarians and Croatians was a seen as an end to Serb irredentist plans to take Bosnia. (Note to Pat, Croatia was in no way to supersede Hungary. Get a fact checker)

If the Croats effective administer the Slavic south the Serb and Slavophile Russian goals would be nullified. The Bosnians and especially the Catholic Slovenes would stay loyal to the Hapsburgs, leaving the Serbs in Bosnia and Serbia out in the cold.

Of course, had Archduke Franz Ferdinand become emperor and follow through with his plans, the Slavs of the central European eastern third of the empire administered by Austrians and Hungarians, the Czechs, Slovaks, Poles and Ruthenians would still feel slighted.
This was not about giving Slavs equality, but about keeping the Hapsburg dominion alive. I am not attacking them for this. My father’s family served them loyally, but let us not play revisionist history.

Finally, Pat fails to understand the Jihadis. True, the probably want war with Pakistan. (I think this is a ChiCom operation run from the Seychelle, but perhaps I am too cynical) However, the Islamic Terrorists in Mumbai would still win if India were to take the pacifist root and deal with the “root causes” of the terrorism. (Actually, the root cause is Islam and the genocidal waves of subjugation by the Muslim world on India over the last 1200 years) The false “root cause” approach will be affirmative action for Muslims, a call to end Hindu Nationalist provocations, and even an end to the crack down on illegal immigration from Bangladesh.
Either way the Deobandis win.

It is a good article, except: Ferdinand was seeking help from Slavic people in keeping Hungarians in the place where the Habsburgs wanted them, which is pretty far down.  It was a divide and conquer strategy.  Actually it is a mistake to insinuate that Hungarians were treated equally with Austrians in the Empire.  For the roughly four hundred years of its existence this Empire was known as the Habsburg empire.  Hungary was incorporated in the seventeenth century, and the Hungarians fought quite a few unsuccessful independence wars (Rakoczy, Kossuth, etc.), which often followed by Habsburg terror on the Hungarian population, or favouring for example the Romanians in Transylvania at the expense of Hungarians.  After the Compromise of 1867 this empire became formerly known as the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which meant first of all that the Kaiser was also crowned in the Buda castle as King of Hungary.  Some other rights were granted (Hungarians could speak Hungarian in public office), but the status of the Hungarians was far from equal.  And from the Habsburg side incitement against Hungarians among the Slavic population started immediately.

Plus: Serbia (Yugoslavia) did not exactly embrace Hungarians (nor Croatians, nor the others).  Yugoslavia was a mess from the beginning…

Sorry!  “… became formerly known...” should have been “… became formally known ...”

Buchanan is right, strategically the assassination achieved success for the Balkan nationalists beyond their wildest dreams. Forget about nitpicking the complexities of Balkan history, his comparison of Mumbai 2008 and Sarejavo 1914 is a good one.

A conflagration between India and Pakistan would weaken or even topple the old orders in the subcontinent and the likely winners would probably be the extremists.

right before Iraq someone made “I want you to attack Iraq” with bin laden as uncle sam pointing at the viewer.  this reminds me of that.

Ishrat Husain was central banker of Pakistan on 9/11/2001 and wrote a book later saying that Pakistan’s gross exports in 2001 were less than interest on its foreign debt and it was in an unsustainable position. 

The US had sanctions on Pakistan from its 1998 nuclear test.  So Pakistan before 9/11 would have to give up its nukes and leave India alone with nukes because of US sanctions.

Its ISI direction Mahmud Ahmad (many spellings are used) was in DC on 9/11 and got the sanctions lifted, new financing and to keep nukes. But he had to resign with a month or two as too closely linked to the terrorists.

Pakistan had a no lose situation to attack us on 9/11.  If it didn’t attack, it would lose its nukes while India kept its.  If it did attack it might keep its nukes and get refinancing.  It worked. See Complete 9/11 Timeline for more detail. 

Pakistan attacked India with its own army in 1999 in the Kargil War under Musharraf and said they were terrorists and wouldn’t take the bodies back of its own soldiers saying they were terrorist.  They are liars and disdain and hate us.

I also find it amusing that given Buchanan’s fears of terrorism from a nuclear Pakistan, Pat has spent so much time actively protecting Iran’s nuclear program.
Will he put two and two together, or does ideological hatred of Israel and American power blind him?

Has anyone noticed how this reeks of false-flag?  This is more “King David Hotel” than Sarejavo 1914.  The last act of terrorism killed about 2000 people in India, right?  This is being played up way too much by the media.

Mr.Princip and his cohorts were part of an operation run by the Serbian Secret Service (a fact discovered long after the War-to-End-All -Wars). It is likely that elements of the Pakistani ISI were involved with the Mumbai terrorists. The ISI is notorious for its Jihadist predilections and India has long maintained that it coordinates the terrorist campaign againt India.

That’s right Rechill. Lets ignore all evidence and scream “Jews”.
60 years of Islamic terrorist attacks on civilians in hotels is irrelevant, but a single attack on British Military headquarters in one wing of the occupied King David Hotel, preceeded by a warning to evacuate civilians is all that should be noticed. In fact all evidence on the attackers should be overlooked too.

When does hatred of Israel become a primary loyalty over lover of America, and lead to becoming an intellectual fifth columnist regurgitating Islamist propaganda?

Isn’t it amazing how much RonL’s irrelevant logic sounds just like the fatuous logic BeBe Netanyahu uses when he tries to portray the Palistinians as a threat to American exceptionalism whenever their poor hopeless civilians have to watch their homes being destroyed without having any redress? The terrorists are hot blooded monsters. Ron L and Bebe are cold blooded monsters. Which one do you think gets the prime real estate in hell?

Bob D,
Stop projecting or proving your ignorance of groups in the middle east. I never mentioned the Palestinians.
Hezbollah is a Shia terrorist group made up of Lebanese Shia and Iranians.
As for Netanyahu (the short version on Binyamin is Bibi), I am no fan of the man who gave up Hebron. Moreover, I don’t believe in American revolutionary exceptionalism. I am a nationalist, not a neocon. I just happen not to be so hateful of neocons as to become their useful opposition/ mirror image, opposing everything they do with no logic to it.

As an American living on land conquered from the native neolithic peoples, why are you attacking Israel? Do you so hate Israel, as to undermine American sovereignty and legitimacy with Fannonite garbage?

Yes, it is true that factions in the Serbian Govt. were in on Princip’s plot. 

Ugh, every discussion of the Balkans brings out partisans on all sides.  Look, although
the Hungarians suffered at the hands of the Germans, the Slavs also suffered at the hands
of the Hungarians.  There was a policy of “Magyarization,” according to which the
Slavs and Vlachs of the Hungarian realm were supposed to learn Magyar in school instead
of their own languages. 

Note to Ron L.:  Pat nowhere said that Croatia (which he does not mention) was going to
“supersede” (a word he did not use) Hungary.  Get a fact checker yourself, or learn to
follow an argument before criticizing it.  Buchanan mentions “greater autonomy and equality with Austrians and Hungarians.” Franz Ferdinand was promising this—not absolute autonomy, not absolute
equality, but greater autonomy and less inequality.  You say that Buchanan does not
understand history—do you understand how to read critically?  Buchanan’s narration
of the events in question does not in anyway contradict any of the points you make. 
Buchanan does not speak to the motives of the Archduke’s plans at all (he doesn’t say
why the Archduke wanted to redress grievances or to expand Slavic rights), so your points
about his motives are not a correction to Buchanan. 

Alphysicist:  Buchanan did not say that Austrian Germans and the Hungarians had equal
rights.  All he was saying was that Slavs had fewer rights than the former peoples did.
The Magyars’ right to speak their own language was hard-won.  Once they won that right,
they decided to “Magyarize” the Croats, Vlachs, Slovaks, etc.  So history goes.  Also,
and I don’t know if you were implying this, but Buchanan never said that the peoples of
the Yugoslav kingdom were treated equally.

“Croatia”—I meant that Buchanan did not claim that Croatia was going to supersede
Hungary.  He mentions the Croats by name later, and of course the largest group among the Slavs
whose situation Franz Ferdinand wished to ameliorate were in fact Croats.

I eagerly await the pro-Serbian partisans who will maintain that Franz Ferdinand was
in cahoots with Bosnian jihadis (even though one of Princip’s co-conspirators was a
Mohammedan) and that his mere *appearance*—for shame!!!—in Sarajevo on St. Vitus
Day was sufficient provocation to justify his assassination and that of his pregnant
wife.

Yes RonL as an american living on indian land I can understand why you would assume that like you, I also believe that two wrongs make a right. And is the kind of neocon arguement that is so fatuous along with your bizarro world “American nationalist for Israel” oxymoron that goes so beyond ignorance that I almost doubt your sincerety. But I recognize you must have grown up in a Zionist ghetto in America (as I did) but you were brainwashed by it instead of understanding it. And yes, I can see slight differences between you and a neocon. And not your pseudonationalism. Neocons think they are nationalists. I don’t believe the talking head neocons are sincere. They just sold out in fear of Abe Foxman in order to keep their jobs. I can understand why you didn’t bring up the palistinians. Just as I didn’t bring up the indians, but you still used them against me didn’t you? All my ancestors were in Europe when that happened. And I don’t support it. Can you say the same about your doppelganger Bebe? Oh thats right, he wasn’t enough of a monster for you he gave up Hebron.

Excellent analysis by Mr. Buchanan.

There are many signs that this was a false flag operation.

Consider:
1. This “lone survivor” who is in Indian Custody is wearing a Hindu religious symbol in his right wrist.
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/evidence-being-deliberately-ignored/
2. The indian press said he is from “Faridkot” in Pakistan. A quick search on Google maps shows there is no such place in Pakistan, although there is such a town in India.
3 Look at his height features and skin color. The odds are very very low you would find this body type in Pakistan. He looks South Indian or Bangladeshi at best.

The Chabab jewish center attacked is a jewish group opposed to Zionism and Israel and is actively hounded in Israel as it does not accept Zionism as Jewish.
The center was so low profile and small that only the Israelis and the Indians would have known it was there.
If 10 gunmen pulled this off for 60 hours than I am the tooth fairy. This involved atleast 100 operatives with intimate knowledge of Mumbai, I.E LOCALS.
The attackers killed the senior Indian Police officer that was hunting down Hindu terrorist who recently bombed a train and the Indian Government had Blamed Pakistan. He had arrested a serving Indian Lt. Colonel amonst others. The culprits had links to the BJP, RSS and Hindu Fascist groups.
MOTIVATION:
The BJP stands to gain votes from such an attack in the upcoming elections.
Hindu extremists can use it to carry out genocide as they recently did in Gujrat.
The Pakistanis have an agenda to end the era of hostile relations with India and this agenda has been neatly subverted.
The Pakistanis would have to be crazy to open a second front on the east when they are at war on the west>
The Pakistani economy is in no condition to weather the cost of hostilities with India.

I vote this was a false flag operation.

What the hell is really going on:

THE MOSSAD CONNECTION:

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/mumbai-terror-attacks-the-mossad-angle/

War by other means:

Obama, the new mask for a more evil policy:

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/video-the-men-behind-barack-obama/

The Chabab jewish center attacked is a jewish group opposed to Zionism and Israel and is actively hounded in Israel as it does not accept Zionism as Jewish.

This is simply not true. 

We have friends in Lubavitch (we sent our kids to the day care there) and they are not oppossed to Israel in any way.

They even collect money for Israel in little blue boxes.

You may be confusing them with another orthodox group.

And pretty much every post RonL has made is just bad logic or factually incorrect.

No cause for concern, The Sherrif just spoke:

China assures full support to Pakistan
Tuesday, December 02, 2008
ISLAMABAD: China has assured full moral, financial and material support to Pakistan in the wake of situation arose after terrorist attacks in Mumbai (India). China in a message to the Pakistan’s top slot said that the country would assist Pakistan in any situation to overcome the problems and challenges being faced by it. The Chinese leadership is in constant contact with Pakistan to know the nature of assistance the latter requires and ensure its immediate availability. However, according to official sources, Pakistan is self-sufficient in defence and it is impossible for any state of the world to harm the country. They said the Pakistan Army, Navy and Air Force are well equipped to protect the homeland.

“da Veg”
The Chabab jewish center attacked is a jewish group opposed to Zionism and Israel and is actively hounded in Israel as it does not accept Zionism as Jewish.

This is simply not true.

“We have friends in Lubavitch (we sent our kids to the day care there) and they are not oppossed to Israel in any way.

They even collect money for Israel in little blue boxes.

You may be confusing them with another orthodox group. “

Here is a news report from Haaretz (you know that Nazi Rag about Chabad)

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1042742.html

Da veg let me assure you of my abiding contempt, the zionists and hindu fascists murdered the chabad in Mumbai and could not hide it for a week.

You f@#$%^&g;AMATEURS.

Here is what typical Pakistanis look like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jeWcbTC4m4

They do not look like this:

http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/evidence-being-deliberately-ignored/

This Hindu Fascist Mossad Hoax will not stand.

Tobias,

The problem is that it is not obvious that the Hungarians were treated better by the Habsburgs than the Croatians.  It was always the Magyars rebelling against Austrian rule, and for example in 1848 the Croats sided with the Austrians (Jelasic).  If they were unequal they would have rebelled themselves.  It was a golden opportunity, since Austria was busy against the magyars.

Whether magyarization qualifies as persecution and to what extent is also not straightforward.  The nationalities created in the twentieth century pushed the idea of “oppressed people” as part of their newly (and often artificially) created identities, and have retroactively interpreted many events as oppression by the magyars which had no such elements in them, or exaggerated them in many cases where they were present. 

I agree though, that the language policy after the Ausgleich was incorrect, as was in most places in the Western World (France, Italy, etc.).

BTW: why can’t people of German or French origin in the US go to schools in their mother tongue?  The German identity was actually very strong at the turn of the century (19th to 20th) in many parts of the U.S., and America would have benefitted from such an arrangement.  I guess multi-culturalist ideology has its double standards.....

@RonL

It was Jews who were the biggest supporters, lobbyists and backers of Islamic terrorist during the 90’s in Bosnia and Kosovo over the Serbs.

Every major Jewish owned news media (in the western world it’s a virtual monopoly), journalist, pundit and organisation propagandised the myth that the Serbs were the new Nazi’s killing innocent Muslims.
Never again! Remember that BS.,

KLA terrorist PM loves Israel and his campaign manager is an Israeli.
http://www.jewishexponent.com/article/14932

This attack looks like a CIA/MI6/Mossad black-ops.

The ISI is nothing more than an extension of the CIA it would be impossible for Pakistan to coordinate an attack without the CIA knowing.

John:
“This attack looks like a CIA/MI6/Mossad black-ops.

The ISI is nothing more than an extension of the CIA it would be impossible for Pakistan to coordinate an attack without the CIA knowing”

John I agree that Mossad was involved with RSS Hindu terrorists in producing this terror, theCIA however could not be involved unless it has gone rogue and is sabotaging U.S. policy in the region.
The instigators of the attacks had 3 objectives:
1. To nuetralize the investigation and arrests being made by the anti-terror police whose net was closing around the terrorists who blew up the train to Pakistan. The police had arrested serving Indian Army Lt. Colonel amonst others. That is why anti terror Chief Karkare was assasinated.
2. To check mate congress and get the BJP back in power.
3. To prepare international opinion to attack Pakistan.
The plot has failed miserably as the plotters have been exposed and the whole situation has been changed. The consequences so far.
1. Pakistan has emergede incredibly united as all political forces have rallied to defend the country.
2. The tribals have offered 50,000 men to fight wherever needed and the several year attempt to paint Pakistan as disunited has been blown away at a stroke.
3. The vulnerability of the U.S. forces have been highlighted.
4.  Game changing policy changes on “the war on terror” by Pakistan are in the offing.

The ISI is no ones pupit including the CIA. It is a formidable, extremely competent arm of the Pakistan army, that destroed the red army in Afghanistan with incredible ease and can repeat the performance any time it wants.

The real danger is that this event has shown that the Indian secret services and their state apparatus and army are infiltrated by fanatical terrorist groups and the question needs to be asked whether India’s nuclearb assets are now in the hands of terrorists.
Remember the BJP /RSS fascists have held the reigns of power in Delhi for years.

AMAZING OUTCOME:

India backs off and down and confirms it will level no accusations against Pakistan.

http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/05/stories/2008120558260100.htm

Its business as usual folks.

I thought they would keep up the charade till elections atleast but the cats out of the bag.

The BJP/RSS Mossad connection is too obvious.

The Israeli media has also gone very quiet.

I also find it amusing that given Buchanan’s fears of terrorism from a nuclear Pakistan, Pat has spent so much time actively protecting Iran’s nuclear program.
Will he put two and two together, or does ideological hatred of Israel and American power blind him?

Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program, whereas Pakistan does. Your attack on Buchanan are unfair and disingenuous.

@Al

It fits CIA objectives perfectly.

Brezinski needs to capture Central Asian oil and gas reserves so he needs a mass deployment to Afghanistan and an engineered crisis like this one fits that agenda perfectly.

You have to realise that there is no Al-Queda or international terrorism.
What there is, is an international Islamic mercenary force financed by organised crime set up by western intelligence specifically during the 90’s in the Balkans to fight the Serbs and the Russians.

So keeping that in mind the geo-political agenda of the US and Europe as described by Brezinski in his book The Grand Chessboard that can for he US to mention global hegemony it must capture and seize control of Central Asia or at least have it under is control.

John, I agree that such incidents suit the purposes of CIA and the Indians to justify the newest version of the great game.
You are right they are after Cent Asian oil and gas. And, you are right they need Islamic mercenaries to help implement this project.
That will pit them against China and Russia who have recently organized regional security arrangements to counter this.
The Russians are countering with a move on venezuela, their warships are in the Panama canal, the chinese are sending army unit to India to “train” anti terror units.
There will be moves and counter moves, treaties and shiftting allainces and a period of change and uncertainty.
Periods of depression like the 30’s are often accompanied with wars as you know.
For the central Asian project to work the lynchpin is Afghanistan.
At this time it appears theyhave lost that country, and unless they can engineer regime change in Iran i suspect this is not going anywhere soon.
Pakistan is a complex place and although it has a comprador class that is ready able and willing to play mercenary, it also has conservative forces that can unseat the compradors, it can easily go either way.
The key is that when they see a threat from India it becomes truly existential, they visualise a holocaust and prison of war camps suddenly that compradors get shunted out.
This is a dangerous situation as they send mixed signals and can trap themselves and others in very dangerous situations.
The irony.
Then there is China who has enabled Pakistan to nuclearize and this ultimately will play the role of the south asian version of Mutally assured destruction. The chinese have done this as they feel India is a strategic threat and Pakistan is the counterbalance.  If this situation exacerbates it bodes ill for the whole world.
The Brezinski approach worked in the 80’s as Afghanistan was occupied by the Russians, and this mobilized millions to attack them.
Now the situation is reversed and they are mobilized against the U.S. so that Karzai now commands little mor than his palace.
I do not believe it is possible for anyone to colonize afghanistan for long, and that makes the whole game a stalemate.
In the meanwhile there are insurencies going on in 265 of Indias 600 odd districts, and India too may not live upto the role Brezinski has in mind.
I have not read his book, it seems its time for a trip to the Bookstore.
Thanks for your insightful comments.

John:

On rereading your piece it seems that i need to address a couple of points:

I felt that the CIA could not be involved because they need India and Pakistan to cooperate in Afghanistan, and that cooperation goes out the door as soon as tensions rise between the 2.
If the CIA is involved than it is to ratchet up pressure on Pakistan to the point of an end game. At this time that would again jeapordize the whole project which would be a sure sign of loss of direction.
The irony is the Taliban offered the U.S. a pipeline that would be secure, the neocons scuttled that.
The other strategic allay needed is Iran and again the neocons scuttled that.
Given the current situation i doubt any central asian country would agree to a pipiline thru afghanistan, even if one were built the main thing flowing tru it would be TNT.
Nor does the U.S. have the manpower to make it happen.
Unless the Kashmir issue is resolved i dontsee how the compradors can survive in Pakistan.
No mark me down as a bear on this project.

@Al

There was also 3 German intelligence officers who through an explosive at a EU office in Kosovo.

This I dont understand.

Is it connected to the attack in Mumbai?

John:

My hunch is that they were connected to the 3 stooges, you know Larry, Moo, and Curly Jo.

But then again you could say that about GWB, Dick, and Rummy and Feith, oops that is 4 and counting to 1000.
I’m no good at math....

@al

The Haaretz article clearly states that the official Chabad people consider this Wolpe freak a loose cannon. Just one more loony in the mad-house doesn’t make Chabad Lubavitch “anti-zionist” in any way.