Kosovo, Russia, and the Last Grasps of American Unipolarity
In the aftermath of Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence on Feb. 17, Moscow and Washington are trading accusations as to which country has acted more irresponsibly.
Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Nicholas Burns complained that Moscow had been given the opportunity to help facilitate the separation of Kosovo from Serbia in a stable, orderly fashion: “So we gave Russia every chance, both in the Security Council last spring and summer, in the negotiations which we co-sponsored with the Russians, but now we have to move ahead,” he told reporters.
President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov, speaking at the Nixon Center in Washington, DC, had a different version. The United States pushed ahead with independence for Kosovo despite the “significant damage” this might do to the fabric of an international order predicated on the territorial integrity of states. And by holding out for independence as the only possible solution, Washington both stymied genuine negotiations between Serbia and Kosovo and also undercut the United Nations. Kosovo is not just a “U.S.-Russia” issue, Peskov said; Washington and Moscow had a responsibility for “joint care” of the international system.
Kosovo is the latest irritant in what was already a deteriorating U.S.-Russia relationship. Disagreements over energy policy, the best way to pressure Iran to abandon its quest for nuclear weapons, the U.S. decision to deploy components of a missile-defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic, a further round of NATO expansion to encompass former Soviet republics like Ukraine and Georgia, as well as the course of Russia’s own domestic political and economic evolution (away from the preferred model endorsed by the United States) have all contributed to a growing chill in ties between Moscow and Washington. Gone is the talk heard in the aftermath of 9/11 of a “strategic partnership” between the two countries—and visible, public flare-ups such as Putin’s 2007 Munich speech divert attention from those areas where there is a productive Russian-American relationship (in stemming nuclear proliferation, cooperation in fighting terrorism, and growing business ties).
But the Kosovo issue has the potential to spoil relations even further, especially because it is becoming inextricably linked to other contentious issues such as efforts to diminish European dependence on Russia as the continent’s principal supplier of energy, the ongoing plans to deploy BMD in eastern Europe, and whether NATO will undergo a third round of expansion to eventually encompass former Soviet republics like Ukraine and Georgia.
To understand why, it is important to listen to Moscow’s narrative over Kosovo.
Peskov summed up Russia’s attitude when he said this past week that Moscow could not share Washington’s view about the “uniqueness of the Kosovo case.” For many Russian officials, Slobodan Milosevic’s campaign against Albanian separatists in the 1990s was no worse than the operations carried out by the Turkish military against the Kurds in that country’s southeast—activities the United States was prepared to overlook. And when the U.S. chose to justify a military intervention against Belgrade in 1999 by appealing to NATO, bypassing the UN Security Council altogether, most in Moscow concluded that America’s definition of “consulting” with the other major powers was to tell them what position they needed to accept.
But when the air campaign produced neither a rapid capitulation on the part of Milosevic and led to a humanitarian crisis as Belgrade used the NATO operation to justify expelling hundreds of thousands of Kosovar Albanians from the province, Washington discovered it needed Moscow. The story one hears from Russians is that a President Clinton, anxious to avoid having to send U.S. ground forces, prevailed on the Russian government to use its good offices (via the diplomatic efforts of former Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin) to tell Milosevic that the U.S. would limit its ambitions for Kosovo to seeking substantial autonomy for the province, leaving a token, face-saving degree of Serbian control. This understanding was then codified in UN Security Council Resolution 1244, which placed Kosovo under an interim UN administration under whose auspices the transition to “substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo” would take place. This process, however, was to respect the “principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity” of Yugoslavia, of which Serbia is the successor state.
Then U.S. ambassador to the UN Richard Holbrooke now says this resolution was a tactical compromise and that “Kosovo is gone from Serbia forever” (as he wrote in the Washington Post in March 2007). But that is not what the Russians think. They thought—and continue to maintain—that the formula laid out in UNSCR 1244 reflected the consensus of the major powers. Its position (extensive autonomy but preservation of territorial integrity) is certainly is accordance with standard U.S. policy objectives in resolving other frozen conflicts in the Caucasus, the greater Middle East and in Africa and is the formula that governs relations between the U.S. and Puerto Rico, a “commonwealth” that nevertheless enjoys a distinct identity in some international forums including the Olympics. Other countries trying to balance between integrity and self-determination also welcomed this resolution, including states like India, Indonesia and South Africa. Beijing, for instance, signed onto this formulation because of the possible precedent in solving the Taiwan issue.
While the U.S. side places the blame for the lack of a final settlement squarely on the shoulders of the Serbs—for not accepting the inevitability of independence—Russia maintains the United States never put any pressure on the Kosovar Albanians to accept compromise formulations—the same ones Moscow says Washington wants the Abkhaz and South Ossetians to accept in terms of a final settlement with Georgia. These would have given a large measure of de facto independence to Kosovo but would have preserved formal Serbian sovereignty over the province. So Russians see this as yet another example of U.S. double standards.
Beyond those feelings, however, is a much more dangerous sentiment: a growing belief in Moscow that the U.S. cannot be trusted. Commenting on the U.S. decision to encourage Kosovo’s declaration of independence and to again bypass the United Nations, Evgeni Bazhanov, the vice rector of the Foreign Ministry’s Diplomatic Academy, said, “There is a real feeling of frustration in Moscow, the sense that agreements [with the United States and the West in general] don’t mean anything. They go ahead and change the terms however they wish.”
Let’s be clear: Russians understand perfectly well that if the United States feels that its vital interests are at stake, Washington is never going to seek a “permission slip” (to use the slogan uttered during the 2004 presidential race) from the UN Security Council to act. But what puzzles many Russians (and, for that matter, leading U.S. foreign policy conservatives like Bob Blackwill, Peter Rodman and John Bolton) is why insisting on independence for Kosovo as the only possible outcome—and setting what many considered to be an artificial deadline for the resolution of the province’s final status—was of such importance to the United States so as to justify the current upset.
Americans are free to disagree with the Russian version of events. But what we are not at liberty to do is to dismiss Moscow’s perspective as being of no concern.
The problem is that this growing belief in Russian foreign-policy circles that U.S. guarantees on Kosovo weren’t worth a continental is only the latest such incident. For years, Russians have that informal guarantees that were extended to Moscow in the wake of German reunification in 1990 that NATO would not expand—the Russians maintain that then U.S. Secretary of State James Baker had told Mikhail Gorbachev and Eduard Shevardnadze that “NATO would not move an inch eastward outside of its present zone of action”—flew out the window once it was no longer convenient to the United States. (Russians also often cite then-Secretary General of NATO Manfred Warner’s speech of May 17, 1990, when he declared, “the fact that we are ready not to place a NATO army outside of German territory gives the Soviet Union a firm security guarantee.”
I have been told time and again by Russians that if the United States or other European countries genuinely believed that a post-Soviet Russia posed a real military threat to east European states or former Soviet republics, they could have extended security guarantees without having to expand NATO. And the response they say they have received is that none of these informal understandings “had been codified in any formal treaty or agreement and that, even if Western leaders such as Helmut Kohl or John Major reiterated what Baker or Worner had said, it was now of no consequence,” to use the words of Russian commentator Aleksey Pushkov.
Then we had the public-relations SNAFU over missile defense systems being deployed in eastern Europe, which complicated not only U.S. relations with Rus sia but also has created problems among NATO countries as well. It took nearly a year for U.S. Defense Secretary Bob Gates to propose that the U.S. would link the activation of such a system to the existence of a credible threat arising from Iran or another rogue state; up to that point, official statements from Washington did rule out the possibility of these components continuing to be stationed and operational even in the absence of a specified threat from Iran—stoking Russian paranoia to record heights. (On a related note, no senior U.S. figure has recently repeated what then-Assistant Secretary of State Elizabeth Jones proclaimed on February 11, 2002, when discussing the U.S. presence in Central Asia: “we don’t want U.S. bases in Central Asia” since “our goal with the Russians is to make sure that they understand we are not trying to compete with them in Central Asia, we’re not trying to take over Central Asia from them.”)
The current team running the Kremlin—one that will stay largely intact after the March 2 presidential elections—is highly pragmatic. Colorful figures like Russia’s representative to NATO Dmitry Rogozin might like to stir things up with tough talk about a Russian military presence in the Balkans, but, as Peskov frankly admitted, Russia is still interested in avoiding confrontation with the West, particularly the United States, since this would divert resources and attention from the overriding priority of Russian economic development. But what will continue to change is the weight accorded American statements by those in power in Russia. No longer is Russia prepared to change its stance or positions in order to receive vague U.S. assurances of “goodwill.”
We’ve already seen this clearly in regards to Iran. U.S. assertions about Iran’s intentions and its capabilities to move forward on a nuclear weapons program don’t carry much weight in Moscow (and were further undermined by the release of the National Intelligence Estimate). And this comes at a time when the United States, preoccupied by Iraq and dealing with the economic consequences of overstretch, is in less of a position to ignore what other powers, including Russia, think and want.
Perhaps the Kosovo affair is the last gasp of the U.S. worldview of the 1990s—the so-called ”unipolar moment.” If so, then dealing with its aftermath, especially in the U.S.-Russia relationship, will test whether American politicians and policymakers are prepared to adapt to the realities of a much more multipolar 21st century. So far, the jury is out.
Nikolas Gvosdev is editor of The National Interest.
Comments
In Washington, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
said it
was time for Serbs to accept that Kosovo
is no longer theirs.
She also suggested it was time to drop
centuries of grievance
and sentimentality in the Balkans.
“We believe that the resolution of Kosovo’s
status will really,
finally, let the Balkans begin
to put its terrible history behind it,”
Rice said Friday. “I mean, after all,
we’re talking about
something from 1389 — 1389!
It’s time to move forward.”
What if we applied the same principles - regarding the lack of importance of things that happened a long time ago and of the equal lack of importance of sentimental grievances - to Israel?
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I think the Gvosdev is right, and that the neocons tend to diregard both what happened a few years ago, when negotiating with Russia, and many centuries ago, when the Serbs fought the Muslim Ottomans. Maybe it would be less damaging to just perpetrate an injustice without inventing false principles to justify it. Rice just added insult to injury. It is, may I say, politically incorect and incoherent, as Gvosdev’s article also demontrates.
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Rice just added insult to injury. It is, may I say, politically incorect and incoherent,...”
As is Rice and the foreign policy she fronts for. Her whining prevarications and obfuscations before the various congressional committees are the stuff of self parody.
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What else would you expect from a people that don’t live in a “reality based community”?
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But why is it the last grasp of American unipolarity? Is there any sign that either the US itself, or someone else will stop them from practicing and perhaps even extending unipolarity in the future?
It is true that the US elite does not live in a reality based community, but they do have their finger on certain buttons, and I am not convinced that they would not push them, had they encountered serious enough obstacles from reality.
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The US policy toward Yugoslavia ---the unipolarism you tlak about--- destroying a relatively successful socialist state, and opening it up to foreign--meaning Wall Street---investment. Most current US foreign policy is about propping up international finance capitalism, which the American elite thinks is important because the US dollar is reserve currency of the system.
The US dollar MUST continue to be the world’s reserve currency if the US is to continue to be able to finance it’s trade and budget deficits. The main reason for US economic properity is the relative value of the US dollar (the eptro-dollar) to other currencies. If the dollar falls, all of the “benefits” of globalization and outsourcing will evaporate, and all the computers and othe consumer goods that prop up the US prosperity will increase in cost to the US conusmer.
Another problem with globalization--the “libertarian” dream of a “New World Order “ without borders or barriers to “free trade” is that the US public is vulnerabel to to changes in the exchange rate, and without manufacturing base or even decent engineering or manufacturing expertise and technology, the US will face a huge decrease in the standard of living.
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I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE PALESTINIANS TO DECLARE AN INDEPENDENT STATE COMPRISING THE WEST BANK, GAZA AND JERUSALEM. OF COURSE, THE NEOCONS WILL COME DOWN ON THE SIDE OF DEMOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST!
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BTW, the USSR threw out the IMF/World Bank/FED/Export-Import Bank system of “globalization” back in the mid-1990’s.
This system of finance capitalism was all about looting the Soviet Union, and it was disasterous for the Russian people. After the end of “free trade” <snicker>, the prospects of the Russian people have improved substantially.
One of the reasons the US is antagonistic to Russia is that it is an independent country that refuses to let the finance capitalist in.
US foreign policy is all about defending and extending international fiance capitalism.
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During an interview with Charlie Rose this weekend Nicholas Burns was effusive about America’s leading role in establishing a Muslim state in the “heart of Europe.” That’s the type of PC bullshit that guides our foreign policy these days. Pissing off Russia, always a neocon ambition, was secondary as regards Kosovo.
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Putin’s lesson on democracy:
“I have no doubt that there are people among you today who would appeal to democracy, freedom and so on. Democracy is a universal concept and it cannot be local (that is, you cannot apply democratic principles in one place and forget about them entirely in another). If a country considers itself democratic it has to be democratic in every way, in every manifestation, both at home and on the international stage.
What is democracy? We all know that democracy is government by the people. Our American partners are looking to deploy elements of a missile defence system in Eastern Europe, a radar station in the Czech Republic, and interceptor missiles in Poland, and these plans look like they will indeed go ahead. But who asked the Czechs and the Poles if they actually want these systems on their soil? According to the information I have received, the vast majority of Czech citizens are not enthusiastic about these plans….No one asked the Czechs’ opinion….” Annual Big Press Conference February 14, 2008 The Kremlin, Moscow
But the Kosovars were asked their opinion, if they wanted independence & the Kosovars took a vote on independence. They appealed to democracy. The Kosovars did not revolt against the Serbs, they did not burn down the US Embassy. The Kosovars and the US behaved just as Putin said they should: “If a country considers itself democratic it has to be democratic in every way, in every manifestation, both at home and on the international stage.”
If the Serbs & the Russian don’t like the outcome of the vote then—Too bad. All the world is a democracy All the world was made safe for democracy with the help of the Serbs in 1914.
I for the life of me can not believe the complete idiocy of those “conservatives” or what ever you dare call yourselves who think that democracy is some sort of divine form of government, but then complain when votes don’t go your way. So by throwing hissie fits, you do your best to legitimize the destruction of property by a bunch of thugs and then appeal to international law. And tell the world that the democratic votes in Kosovo don’t count. So instead you “conservative” idiots appeal to use of force.
Complete hypocrisy.
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Ravis You wrote: Pissing off Russia, always a neocon ambition, was secondary as regards Kosovo.
How many Russians live in Kosovo?? Kosovo is not the business of the Russians, let alone the Serbs, now. Leave it alone, you Serbs and Russians lost the argument. If any conflict arises in the area, it will be the doing of the pissed off Serbs. Pissed off because they once had great ambition to become “greater” Serbia, now Serbia is “lesser” Serbia. Most get pissed off when put in their place. The Serbs were put in place. And deservedly so.
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Ravis said:
“Nicholas Burns was effusive about America’s leading role in establishing a Muslim state in the “heart of Europe.”
But, of course, it’s been clear since Clinton started bombing Serbs in Bosnia and then in Kosovo and Serbia, the U.S. was up to making Muslim States in Europe.
Those who can’t accept, it can be in American interest in doing that,should remain convinced - they are right. The strangeness of the American Foreign policy, however, has a very logical explanation.
The new Muslim states in Europe are the the offerings of our Jews-run Government, to the Muslim World at large as a compensation for the crucifixion of the Palestine. (Here we won’t move a little finger to aliviate the sufferings of Muslims but our sympathy for them increases exponentialy with the distance from Jerusalem).
Therefore, the frantic effort to declare Kosovo independent where the problem “can’t wait” whilst the problem
of Palestine is “very complexe” and after sixty years, doesn’t require any rush,and- with no end in sight.
Only fools are trying, at this stage, to find a justification in the U.S. actions abroad on the basis of some National Interest.
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Michael,
The Albaians took over the province after:
the US bombed Serbia until they removed their military forces out of the area,
Local(Albanian) police officials stood idly by while the Serbs were murdered in their homes, their villages and churches burned,
The Serbian population was literally driven out,
Hundreds of thousands of Albanians were allowed to cross the border illegally
To hold a vote after all that and say the result is democratic is the worst sort of crass lying. What did the Serbs do to make you think they “deserved it”? Do you understand that the Albanians have killed more Serbs since the American bombing campaign than Albanians were killed before it? This whole result has been engineered from the start so that American mining companies can exploit Kosovar gold and copper deposits.
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What would happen if I declare my small holdings here in East Alabama as a separate country? Would the USofA governmetn stand up for my right to secede?
Of course not.
That everyone in America does not see this for what it really is, is indicative of the overwhelming “brainwashing” of the American citizenry.
As stated above, what else would you expect from an administration that doesn’t live in a “reality based community” that has trillions of dollars and millions of brainwashed subjects? We have the clinically insane leading a brainwashed population. The only smart thing to do would be to get out of their way, until we figure out a way to stop them. Meanwhile, Serbians, sorry, but there’s really not much us sane people can do here in America. Don’t worry, you’ll get Kosovo back one day.
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Michael Warning seems not to have understood that Kosovo was a province, however autonomous, of Serbia. It was not a colony. Does he imagine that Washington would recognise a declaration of independence by Puerto Rico?
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Michael Warning,
Actually, to be clear on this, conservatives are the ones who typically say that “we’re a republic, not a democracy”, rule of law being more important than votes. Conservatives talk about ‘freedom’ as sacrosanct more than they talk about democracy.
You may have a gripe about how this squares with their view of international law regarding the invasion of Iraq, but conservatives feel that Iraq violated cease fire treaties, which made action against Iraq legitimate, and that US sovereignty is not bound to the UN.
At any rate, we shouldn’t confuse the issue, what conservatives believe about law and democracy isn’t the issue.
Part of the issue is that over the past decades, and this has accelerated recently, Kosovar Albanians, through the KLA, have been pushing Serbs out of Kosovo, killing them, harassing them, and destroying historic sites. The West, rather than seeing problems on all sides, chose to make Serbia the only culprit, and while acting against the Serbs, did not use any force or persuasion to stop crimes by other parties against Serbs. The West has also routinely rejected Serb proposals of compromise.
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This is ridiculous on so many levels it isn’t even funny anymore.
I really think a war might be good right about now, because diplomacy sure as hell doesn’t do the job!
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I take it then that Mr. Warning was against the war of Northern Aggression?
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@ Michael Warning
Obviously you believe that people who write and post comments on this site are idiots--you have even said so in the last paragraph of your first posting. Telling someone they are an idiot is a *great* way to make them agree with you; but then, you probably don’t want agreement--you want obedience, in the time-honored Islamic tradition.
You conveniently ignore all of the facts presented in well written and well researched (and referenced) articles written by Taki, John Zmirak, Matthew Reynolds, and now Mr. Gvosdev. In response to what they had to say, you offer your fictional version of reality and history without any references, links, or anything. I guess you haven’t yet learned how to insert links into your postings, or you can’t find any links to support your positions.
It seems to me you’re on a jihad against common sense. Since you always seem to be in disagreement with authors who post on this site, why do you even bother coming to it? Is it because Al-Jazeera doesn’t allow comments on their web site?
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Just wait until “Ceaser McCain” get’s a chance to spit in the eye of Putin!.....Ha-Ha....This country has gone nuts! We kill muslims to satisfy Israel, and kill Christians just to irritate the Russians! Are there not some Hindus or Buddists that our Global Partners in China would like us to kill?
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Apparently not enough people have read their Carroll Quigley. Breaking up sovereign nations in order to dissolve Eurasia for the purposes of Anglo-American unipolarity and dominance of the international economy has been the guiding principle of American foreign policy since the Spanish-American War. The British strategy of ‘divide and conquer’ has been adopted by the Americans; is this not obvious by now? What Washington is going to do tomorrow and today will not stray an inch from this goal.
It would be rather easy, from a Machiavellian perspective, to mould circumstances and language pursuant to this goal:
1. Exploit the compassion of the American people to project the States into war through the media, which only usually reports the infighting statements of the key players in the two-party false dichotomy; speak of freedom and democracy and fabricate some divine purpose to obtain funds from evangelical donors.
2. Decimate the nation that opposes the Pax Americana or has delusions of its own sovereign and interests whilst demonising the enemy in order to maintain support for the destruction of rival infrastructure. Draw comparisons to clichéd monsters and use the attendant buzzwords. For instance, ‘Slobodan Milosevic is disregarding international law and UN sanctions in his holocaust of ethnic Albanians / Saddam Hussein is disregarding cease-fire treaties, supporting terrorism, has weapons of mass destruction, and committed a Stalinist sort of genocide against innocent Kurds, which shows his intent to destroy America / The Emperor of Austria is running a tyrannical regime based on nothing but an accident of birth, denying the yearnings of the Central European peoples for democracy / Kaiser Wilhelm murdered the American passengers of the civilian ship Lusitania [and insert same lies about Austrian Emperor], etc.’ Genocide! Holocaust! Antisemitism! Therefore it is necessary to kill [Eurasian peoples of economically advantageous and resource-rich location where it would be militarily advantageous to build an American base].
3. Issue reconstruction rights to key companies that patronise election cycles and the military-industrial complex, feeding the machine. And do not forget about the banks! The more debt, the better, so the twelve private banks that comprise the Federal Reserve can collect interest on the debts of the American Treasury and thus re-circulate smaller portions of their money to aspiring politicians or the agéd few who have played this sleight-of-hand game for decades.
4. Celebrate the spread of Anglo-American global hegemony as a victory for democracy, human rights, auto-determination, religious liberty, and freethinking. This is the Illuminist dogma which the keen of sense can discern is but a euphemism for ‘power in the right hands.’ Marry it to Straussianism at home as a moral rationale, and perhaps one can sleep at night if he thinks of the dead bodies as mere statistics.
5. Cement the history through various news stories, books, magazine articles, public receptions, and feel-good concerts.
Congratulations, you have built a ‘free’ nation according to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and a market to buttress it. American good has thwarted the obscurantist evils of Eurasia.
That being said, my personal preference is that I would rather not live in a ‘Novus Ordo Seclorum’ courtesy of the Synagogue of Satan. Kosovo je Serbija!
By the way, Michael Warning is a Catholic Imperialist, not a Mohammedan, in case you have not gathered that yet. Of course he would have animosity against the Serbs - where was Gavrilo Princip from, and what did he represent? After all, HIRH Otto von Habsburg supports the recent declaration of independence, too.
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Surely I’m not the first person to notice that Secretary Rice is totally incompetent, am I?
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xman: “Surely I’m not the first person to notice that Secretary Rice is totally incompetent, am I?”
Well, she is an AA hire. Like the coming prez and his AA wife. Years of multiculturalism showing its fruits.
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I talked to several Serbs here in Germany. For them Kosovo is a myth. It is one of the poorest ares in Europe but that does not count. It is a part of Serbia’s identity.
There is no need to provoke. Balkan people are emotional, and it is better to take that into account. If not, you pay bloody prices…
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Michael Warning is absolutely right.
Those of you here who aren’t Serbs, or of Serb heritage, are not only fighting for a lost cause, Kosovo’s independence is fait accompli, you’re also fighting for a group of people who have duped you so much with their clap-trap that next is probably you’ll be bying bridges from them at “bargain” prices.
In exactly what way are Serbs whiter than the Albanians? They aren’t. If anything, the Albanians are the fairer ones.
In what ways have the Serbs “defended” Christendom and the West? They haven’t. They even don’t BELONG to the West. Ever since the Turks conquered them in that fatal battle some five centuries ago, the Serbs have served the turkish sultan. Like in the battle of Nicopolis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nicopolis
The Serbs in reality hate the West and they hate Catholics, no matter where they’re from.
So all you Habsburg Empire nostalgic Catholics here, what the hell is wrong with you? Maybe you guys really ARE stupid? Think about it.
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As a supporter of the Empire, I do not find that I am in any way holding a position that contradicts my principles. Serbia, for better or worse, has sovereign rights over the area of Kosovo. Or, I should clarify, HRH Alexander II has sovereign rights over Kosovo, democratic auto-determination especially notwithstanding. I cannot, in conscience, support democracy over Authority and Sovereignty, nor the continuation of the work of Wilson to dissolve Eurasia in order to conquer it. I may not like many aspects of Serbia, but may my personal preferences be far away from pretensions to dismiss rightful authority.
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Hungary and Russia are now signing an agreement regarding the “Blue Current” gas pipeline which is supposed to go under Serbia and perhaps Kosovo.
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@Jack Rich, Charles, Michael Waring,
Of course the sad losers in this whole fiasco will be ...well , everyone. Do the Kosovars think for a minute that they will remain free of their new masters? Not bloody likely. They and their new country will be exploited for what they are worth and then tossed to the side or threatened and bombed if they get too uppity. The neo-cons globalizers are nothing if not cunning. They constantly sow the seeds of future dissent and then savor the fruits of their labor like a fine wine or a young man’s blood.
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Kosovo is nothing more than a Sudetenlands of 21’st century. If anyone believes for one moment that with Kosovo ends US grand design for Europe and World, you are hopelessly naive. I will make a call right here and right now that it will be US itself to invoke Kosovo as an example to follow, where ever it suits them.
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@Sasha Djurovic,
It’s like Ron Paul said in his interview with Glen Beck, people who work for one world government have a lot of patience and work at it continuously and are willing to wait many years. In the meantime it pays nice dividends to be fomenting revoloution on a worldwide scale.
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Mr. Senna,
What a disgusting and utterly ignorant post by you, “sir”.
When have Serbs defended Christendom? Are you kidding me? Why is it exactly that mosques do not (yet) figure prominently in the Vienna skyline? Do you believe that 1389 (and several other key dates of the era) is concocted as Serb propoganda? The Serbian forces of the era (often in allegiance with Chrsitian fighters from Hungary, Romania, and elsewhere) did indeed stop the advance of Turkish forces into Europe. That you and others remain thankless for the deed does not mean that it is untrue.
As to who is “whiter” - who the &^%$# even brought that up other than you? So the Kosovo Albanians are “white” Islamic murderous drug runners. So what?
Get a clue - or at least what used to pass as a third grade education.
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P.S. , Mr. Senna.
As recently as within the past two years Serbs (a) apprhended the chief suspect (Morrocan Muslim) implicated by the Spanish government in the Madrid bombings, (B) continued to apprehend “white” Muslims in southern Serbia who are in allegiance with Al Qaida and planning European attacks, and (c) continuecd to track and chase down “white” Albanian drug runners who traffic heroin into the rest of Europe from the their friends in the Middle East and help fund international jihad (these “white” Albanians comprise the bulk of Interpol’s most wanted list).
Does this resemble “defending Christendom”? Given this, who has done more for the “war on terror” these past few years - Serbia or America?
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P.P.S. Mr. Senna.
Here is a quote directly from the quote as stated in his audience with the Serbian ambassador to the Vatican last week:
“I rejoice in the progress that has been made in relations between Orthodox and Catholic Christians, and I am especially grateful to the Serbian Orthodox Church for graciously hosting the 2006 meeting of the mixed commission for theological dialogue between Catholics and Orthodox, with the active support of senior members of your Government,”
That you believe Serbs are Catholic-haters is in line with the idiocy you demonstrated in your other pronouncements. The Serbs do indeed bear grudges against “Catholic” Croats who slaughtered them in multiple wars and ware indeed upset with the Vatican for venerating the Croat bishop-murder Stepinac. As for the Church as a whole, Serbian clerics and laymen have faithfully worked towards some meaningful reconciliation. If the Catholic world actively conspires against them, it will be Catholics and not Orthodox who bring about disintegration of Christendom because neither one of the two can lead a trully vibrant and resurgent Christian Europe alone.
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above is supposed to say “quote directly from the Pope”
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M.Nucci: you wrote: “Do the Kosovars think for a minute that they will remain free of their new masters? Not bloody likely.”
And do tell us just who are the Masters of Serbia? Or does Serbia not have any masters?
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Mr.Big Mac you wrote: “That you believe Serbs are Catholic-haters is in line with the idiocy you demonstrated in your other pronouncements. The Serbs do indeed bear grudges…”
Yes the Serbs do bear grudges against the Roman Catholic Faith, and do their best to carry them out….
“Serbian Extremists Linked to Plot Against Pope SARAJEVO, Bosnia, JUNE 25, 2003 The Ravna Gora Serbian extremist movement planned to attack John Paul II sometime during his recent trips to Croatia and Banja Luka, a newspaper reported.”
Yeah…. it is pretty much apparent that if one desires the death of the Holy Roman Pontiff and if one forms a group to carry out an assassination of the Holy Father, then I think it is fair to say that there is some Serbian hatred of the Roman Catholic Faith.
Oh yeah Mr Big Mac…. when the Serb rioters recently destroyed the American Icon Mickey D’s were you upset that they went to far? Or was this the Serb example of restoring culture back to Europe by destroying your name sake.…
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Mr Big Mac your wrote:
“The Serbs do indeed bear grudges against “Catholic” Croats who slaughtered them in multiple wars and ware indeed upset with the Vatican for venerating the Croat bishop-murder Stepinac.”
Really? it is none of your business now is it Mr. Big Mac if the church beatifies or canonized a Faithful son of the Church. It is Her Business, not yours, or any other Serb Othordox.
His proper name is Blessed Alojzije (Aloysius) Viktor Cardinal Stepinac Because in 1998 Pope John Paul II declared him a martyr and beatified him
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@Michael Waring,
So don’t keep us all in suspense, who are the Serb’s masters? I know that they are not the neo-cons and their global partners. My only point is that they will be left alone for now but as soon as they show any urge to make decisions that go againt the neo-cons then they will quickly become world enemy number one and an invasion will quickly follow. As far as an attempt by Serbs on the Pope’s life it smacks of a false flag attack to me just like the bombing of mosques in Iraq. What do Serbs gain by murdering the Pope? Nothing. Well go on and celebrate Kosovo’s independence for all I care. They better hurry up and recognize Israel and fast. Of course that would really throw a kink in the neo-con’s long term plans.
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Mr. Warning, I presume that by the word “Church,” you are referring to the Franco-Papist Communion, correct?
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Mr. Warning,
I do not understand why some Catholics choose to play the “evil Orthodox” line. To side with jihadists?! Serbs and Croats have had their differences. Many non-Serb historians have documented Stepinac’s role in a genocide attempted against the Serbs. I watched live tv on EWTN when Pope John Paul II visited Bosnia and addressed the (largely Serbian) community of Banja Luka - he specifically APOLOGIZED for how the Catholic faith had sometimes been invoked in carrying out crimes “in this region”. What do you think he was referring to? The quote iin the past post from Pope Benedict thanking the Serbs speaks for itself. Belgrade was instrumental in rejuvenating eccumenical discussions that had stalled. Shortly after the Belgrade conference, Pope Benedict visited Patriarch Bartholomew in Constantinople for a special service at St. George’s. Serbian bishops were prominent in the all these conferences (as were Greek).
That there is Serbian scepticism with regards to eccumenical activity is only natural given the past atrocities of Croats who all the while cloaked themselves in Catholocism and the Vatican’s rush to break up Yugoslavia without due consideration for proper dialogue and diplomacy. How can it be otherwise? None-the-less, the Serbs, I think, have gone above and beyond in working towards reconciliation because (a) they do encounter some fine Catholic bishops and (b) undersand (unlike ranting lunatics like you) that all of Christendom is at risk unless the Catholics and Orthodox cooperate.
As far as masters, do indeed expalin who the masters of the Serbs are. The Russians? I don’t see them rushing troops to defend Serbian territory. The fact is that Serbs are a small, but freedom-loving, nation. And have paid the price for it repeatedly.
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@Big Mac
So many words, so much skewed reality, and so little substance. Except for the battle of Kosovo, how exactly did Serbia go about defending Christianity? Let me repeat for you again, she was a turkish VASSAL for five centuries. If you don’t understand the meaning of that word, it is something like servant. When the ottoman sultans said “jump”, Serbia jumped. For five centuries.
Also, you conveniently forget to mention that Serbs were already fighting for the Sultan in the battle of Kosovo. So the Serbs were, unlike all the other Christians participating in the battle, fighting on BOTH sides. That hardly makes them defenders of Christianity. Spineless opportunists perhaps.
Ever heard of the battle of Angora (Ankara)? Serbs, together with their turkish masters “defending Christianity” again?
Can you name one single battle, save Kosovo, where Serbia fought agaist her islamic masters? One?
Here’s what an expert has to say about Kosovo having “always” been serbian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/26/kosovo.serbia
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William Lind offers the first sensible and informed article on the Kosovo issue that I have seen from an unprejudiced source, and I strongly commend it. He also knows the real military situation and is the expert, along with Martin van Creveld, on 4th Generation War.
http://dni2.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/on-war-252-fools-rush-in/#more-148
The nutshell:
1. Kosovo and Bosnia are fake nation-states. There is not people called Kosovars. There is not people called Bosnians. There are only Serbs, Albanians, Croats, and a few other groups. Serbia and Albania have irredentist nationalist claims, and have Great Power sugar daddies. And Serbia and Albania are prepared to fight 4GWs for their aims. This is what the conflict is really about. Plain and simple.
2. A Congress of Berlin 1878 should be called. and Serbia given the areas of Bosnia and Kosovo that are majority Serb, Albania the areas of Kosovo that are majority Albanian. So one will be happy with this solution, but its better than an unavoidable Balkan war that could bring in Great Powers, and thus become a world war. It’s happened before.
My summary is inadequate. Read the article.
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Well, I guess Warning and Cundiff are the prevailing loudest voices here. Indeed, why don’t all Catholics rush to side with jihadists. The Serbs are just evil, non-white, non-Christian scum. So liquidate them. Hey, I am ALL FOR you living with Turks and Albanians - then it will finally qualify you to preach to Serbs.
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I don’t think anyone is trying to say that the Serbs are defenders of Christianity here. Maybe some are but certainly not I. My only point is that the neo cons will continually set up situations and side with whichever suits there current needs. The main aim to insure that there is never peace. I for one won’t be jumping on board when they are assembling a coalition of the willing to attack Kosovo. What do we get from their wars? Endless expansion of the federal government and less civil liberties. They have set the table for a fine feast. Enjoy.
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Begging everyone’s pardon, but shouldn’t the title be “last GASPS” and not “last GRASPS”? “Last GRASPS” doesn’t make sense to me. If it does to anyone else, please explain.
Thanks in advance.
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No, I AM saying that the Serbs have some history of defendingChristendom. If by that we mean stopping the advance of Islam into Europe and doing it under the auspices of the Church (Orthodox) and having pious leaders like Lazar - the yes! - the Serbs qualify. Vassalage was a real and unfortunate reality - as was janissarism. All occupied lands got sucked in to some form of it. For the aforementioned writers to use that as a disqualifier to Serbian resistence on behalf of Christendom is thoughtless. In that case, why don’t you tell Taki that the Greeks don’t qualify either? Besides 1389, the Serbs (as Byzantine subjects, as members of their own medieval kingdom, even as refugees north of Ottoman-Austrian divide from “Krajina") fought Islamic invaders numerous times. They fought alongside other legendary Christian defenders (of the Catholic persuasion) such as St. John Capistrano. Let me ask the posters this: give me examples of , say Germany’s, defense of Christendom. More fervent or important than anything Serbia, Russia, or Romania did? Or do the latter not count because their patriarch does not sit in Rome?
What really astounds me is the stereotypical rabid anti-Orthodox self-proclaimed Catholics here who DESIRE a rift with Orthodox Serbs at the benefit of non-Christians. How does this make any sense whatsoever? I don’t need Cundiff’s response I know full well what his intentions are and they have nothing to do with defending either Christendom or the truth.
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To protect myself from “Big Mac’s” defamatory remarks: I am not pro or anti the Serbs or the Albanians. I asked for evidence for the conflict being about religion. I never got it. I suggested that maybe the conflict is instead ethnic nationalist (a view William Lind seems to endorse). I suggested that the conflict was irredentist on the parts of Serbia and Albania. William Lind gives some support to this view too. I certainly am not an opponent of the Eastern Orthodox Church. e.g., I have, in theological discussions on the web affirmed that Church’s view of the redemption, the recapitulation theory of Irenaeus, over penal substitutional atonement of Calvin. And the Eastern Church never let its liturgy be debased.
I suspect “Big Mac” knows he is practicing defamation, he too cowardly to use his own name.
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Craig Senna’s expert is Noel Malcolm! Noel f’ing Malcolm!!!!
There’s no point discussing this with the Catholic Firsters. They are out to prove that the Know Nothings were right.
Nikolas Gvosdev,
A very interesting clear-headed analysis. Thanks.
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OK, Sid, that’s enough! Since you’re the only one here obsessing exclusively about the religious dimension to the Kosovo conflict, why don’t you research it yourself and report back. Take your time. Six months? Fine. Take a year. Two, if need be - buy, hey, five would be better. Your tendentious yap will not be missed, I assure you.
You pare out and pore over insignificant aspects of an issue, stumbling through a vast wasteland of verbiage to obsessively examine one tiny, elemental fragment as if it’s a relevatory lodestar. Sid, you can’t see the forest for the ragweeds.
Straight up: You’re at your best when fabulously concocting make-believe histories, poppycock wet-dream worlds where great aunt Doozie traipses the backcountry to hate-the-WASP rallies a-singin’ hi-deedle-dee, hi-diddle-doo.
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@ San Fernando Curt
LOL!
@ Sid Cundiff
Sid, you keep asking for evidence but then you ignore answers that people provide to you. Let me quote John Zmirak’s reply to you (to which you never replied, btw) from his “Kosovo on the Thames” column last week:
“Dear Sid,
Ultranationalism (sometimes of a religiously zealous sort) is hard to distinguish from orthodox Islam, and often survives its decline--and can provoke its resurgence. Robert Spencer more than demonstrates that in his works (see his excellent Web site, http://www.jihadwatch.org)."
I’m sure you don’t accept John’s reply as evidence because he didn’t provide N references to peer-reviewed studies and census data.
By the same token, you probably don’t recognize that Northern Ireland conflict was about religion (Catholics vs. Protestants--what does that have to do with religion?), or that the Bosnian war was about religion (Moslems vs. Roman Catholics vs. Eastern Orthodox).
You can’t separate religion from other aspects of people’s identities if they themselves see religion as an integral part of self. That those conflicts are about ethnicities does not preclude that they are also about religions. In some instances, as in Bosnia, religion is the only basis for ethnicity.
I’m really puzzled as to why you so often refuse to see the obvious.
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I, for one, probably being one of the most fanatical Traditional Catholics any of you will ever come across in all of your years, think that the pedantry of Mr Sid Cundiff on these and many issues should be shunned from the conversation. And while I will openly proclaim my belief in the necessity of every human creature being subject to the Holy Roman and Sovereign Pontiff in order to attain eternal salvation (but not in the Feeneyite sense), I will recognise objective facts and goods when they are present in those who have separated themselves from the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.
The fact remains that Noel Malcolm’s article was a positivist analysis of what constitutes Serbia as a nation. His analysis strongly implies that he does not belief in sovereignty and relies on a concept of nationhood and ownership based, more or less, democratic self-determination. This is drivel of the basest kind. How can there be sovereignty if there is no sovereign wielding authority and subjects to obey it? The analysis of Mr Malcolm is a typical postmodern rant from the adolescent idealism that has infected the West since 1918.
The other fact remains that the Kingdom of Serbia has always maintained sovereignty over Kosovo. Unless one wants to side with the godless Turks, believing their anti-Christian usurpation and conquest of the Balkan peninsula somehow expunged this sovereignty, suspending its status as legitimate, and destroying the nation of Serbia, he enlists himself among the enemies of civilisation. Since the heirs to the Christian Kingdom of Serbia (which even acknowledged the Pope in 1389 still, as the Eastern Schism was mostly a Byzantine political position) could not be discerned, the Patriarch of Serbs crowned a new King of Serbia on 16 August 1921, well within His Beatitude’s authority to do so. Ever since, the rights of Authority and Sovereignty over the region of Kosovo, historically Serbian, has belonged to the patriarch of the Royal House of Karađorđević and does today.
As for the hostility of Mr Warning to Serbia, apparently because it is an historical ally with Russia, I believe this hostility derives from the apparition of Our Lady of Fatima, at which the Blessed Virgin said, “When you see a night illumined by an unknown light*, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”
Ironically, the present reality is that the greatest force for the propagation of the errors of Russia is the United States of America, the United Nations, and the European Union! In fact, the single nation in the world most strongly opposed to the historical errors of Russia, namely global atheistic revolution, is the Russian Federation! Our Lady only said that Russia will spread her errors throughout the world. She did not say that it would always be Russia that, although the source of these errors, would be the executor of their spread.
Catholics, pursuant to the return of the East to the unity of the Catholic Church, the defense of Christendom, and resistance to the usurpations of sovereignty by global democratism and Revolution, must wholeheartedly support resistance to the perfidious machinations of the US, UN, and EU for domination of Eurasia through capitalism and democratism.
As for the Albanians being ‘more white’ than the Serbs - who cares? Race means something within the context of fatherland, culture, and custom, but there is no hierarchy of races. It is simply not important; Authority is. Supporting the Albanians is supporting the claims of the godless Turks, which are being used by the United States to further demolish the remnants of Christendom.
Kosovo je Srpsko!
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Correction in Paragraph III: ‘Unless one wants to side with the godless Turks...’ should be read as thus: “IF one wants to side with the godless Turks...”
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Charles, I thank you , sir.
I trully believe that willing and faithful Catholics and Orthodox must continue to strive for reconciliation and unity. While full communion may not be within our grasp, certainly a workable relationship can and should be developed...as I believe is being done.
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May God Bless Russia and Mr. Putin!
They are the only chance HUMANITY has to look forward for HOPE against the new Evil Empire.
Moscow is the new Shining city on the Hill!
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Recognition of Kosovo as a separate state is a clear violation of UN Security Resolution 1244, the most recent in a long series of violations of international law by the US, the UK and NATO. Those who support such recognition also support international anarchy.
Kosovo is not of course independent. It will be run by the US, the EU and NATO for the benefit of Western corporations. The “government” of Kosovo will have no authority whatsoever in terms of taxation, finances, foreign policy, security policy, customs or law enforcement.
The US has already established a military presence in Kosovo in the form of Camp Bondsteel, a giant fortification which includes a Guantanamo-type prison facility.
Since the entry of NATO into Kosovo in 1999, the KLA has been running a campaign of violent ethnic cleansing. It took only 5-6 months for Kosovo to become judenrein, under the watchful eyes of the democratic West and its troopers. Serbs, Roma and others have been on the receiving end of permanent terrorism. The number of ethnic Albanians has been artificially swelled by immigration from Albania.
One of the major incentives for Western corporate predators to control Kosovo is that it “…is endowed with a wide range of minerals that make this small territory home to one of Europe’s most concentrated and potentially most lucrative mining sector.” ("KFOR Chronicle” 30 June 2007.)
The minerals include lignite, lead, zinc, non-ferrous metals, gold, silver and petroleum, some of which have been tapped at the Trepca mine complex near Mitovica, which was valued at about USD 5 billion in 1997. The Albanian gangster “government” of Kosovo is eager to sell these resources to large Western companies. The following text is from http://mining-conference.mem-ks.com/:
“Kosovo International Minerals Investment Conference
The Ministry of Energy and Mining invites you to participate in the International Minerals Investment Conference to be held on June 27-28, 2007 in Pristina, Kosovo. We believe this will offer an introduction to outstanding investment opportunities for companies engaged in the global minerals industry...we have high expectations that firms such as yours will find the opportunities that Kosovo offers in the minerals mining sector provide an outstanding potential for profitable business development.
As Kosovo nears determination of its future political status and the Ministry is now finalizing development of Kosovo’s Mining Strategy, the main purpose of this Minerals Conference is to introduce Kosovo’s many opportunities for mineral development projects and to listen to you, and other voices representing the global minerals industry.
The major reasons why you should participate in this conference include:
* Outstanding mineral resources, including world class deposits of lead, zinc, silver and lignite
* Mineable reserves of nickel, chrome, bauxite and magnesite
* An abundance of construction materials
* Untapped, enormous exploration potential.
Several hundred businesses in Kosovo have already been privatized, and this process is proceeding well. The next phase of privatization will include socially-owned enterprises in the mining sector, including the renowned Trepca mining complex.”
It should also be noted that during the criminal bombardment of Yugoslavia in 1999, NATO planes flew about 37,000 sorties, attacking targets that included civilian infrastructure (war crime in itself) and state-owned factories. As far as I know, not a single bomb was dropped on the Trepca mine complex, which obviously would command a lower price if it were damaged.
For the Kosovo Albanians’ ties to international crime, see the articles by Michel Chossudovsky at http://www.globalresearch.ca
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It is abundantly clear to anyone that Evil Empire and their servants don’t care nor obey the previous laws and norms established during bi-polar world.
They believe in might like all the bullies before them.
Remember the 3 war criminals and genocidal maniacs meeting on some island and “deciding” for the “world” to attack Iraq?
You do it in the name of “freedom and liberty”, uncle Stalin did it to protect “workers paradise” and uncle Adolf was “protecting” fatherLand(s).
Will be interesting to see how it ends.
On the bright side you are “safer” now that you have internal passports like they did in the previous Evil Empire.
Good Luck
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subhuman:
Which countries were attacked by the Soviet Union?
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Hungary in 1956, Checkoslovakia in 1968, Afganistan in 1979.
Remember the “Iron Curtain” and Berlin wall?
It was very similar to “secure” border in the new Evil Empire, walls around Palestinians by Zionist nazis, starving of Gazans etc.
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Hungary was not attacked by the Soviet Union. Armed Hungarian rightists rebelled against the government, which called in Soviet troops to help put down the revolt.
Nor was Czechoslovakia “attacked”. It was occupied because the government had refused to break off the negotiations with the World Bank and the IMF that would have undermined the Comecon economy. How many bombs fell on Prague? How many Czechs were killed?
In an interview with Le Nouvel Observateur in 1998, Jimmy Carter’s former security advisor Zbiegnew Brzezinski boasted that the US had financed, trained and armed 20,000-30,000 Islamic fundamentalists (among other things with Stinger missiles) and sent them into Afghanistan to topple the government 6 months before there were any Soviet troops in the country. Funding was channelled through the bin Laden family, including Osama. Brzezinski’s claim is confirmed in ex-CIA head Robert Gates’ memoirs, “Out of the Shadows”. Details of the US recruitment of the fundamentalists (in cooperation with the UK, Egypt, Israel, the Pakistani secret service and China) are given in Unholy Wars, by John Cooley, Pluto Press, 1999.
The only way for the government in Kabul to deal with the threat was to ask for help from the Soviets, which was precisely what Brzezinski and William Casey had hoped for. The Kabul government was attempting to break the hold of the feudal landlords and had launched policies that included cancelling peasant debt to landlords, abolishing usury, by which the peasants were virtually enslaved, building schools and medical clinics, redistributing land to rural families, emancipating and educating the female half of the population and outtlawing child marriage – among other things. Such policies were anathema to the Moujahedeen and the CIA.
It is absurd to equate the Soviet “attacks” on Hungary and Czechoslovakia with Nazi aggression or with US attacks on Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Grenada, Nicaragua, Panama, Yugoslavia or Iraq, to name a few criminal aggressions.
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@Factfinder,
So what you are essentially saying is that Kosovo is going to get the Galactus treatment. That’s the guy in Marvel Comics who eats planets. After reading your fine fact filled posts I am convinced more than ever that most of these so called terrorist attackt ,, etc have been false flag. Have to establish first the appearaance of a need for independence. Convince a couple local lackeys to vote for independance and then bleed them dry. Sounds like they are moving full speed ahead. Ron Paul proves prophetic again when one considers that this has been in the works since at least the early 90s. You have to hand it to these guys. I mean do they know how to scheme or what? It’s amazing when you don’t consider the toll in human lives what you can accomplish.
It appears to me that you have also answered Sid’s question. All the religious stuff is just window dressing. I mean nobody wants to hear that we are bombing a country to rob them of their mineral resources.
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FactFinder,
None of the despots and tyrants ever attacked anybody, they always “defended” something or somebody.
I never heard Diablo, Condy or the state owned media tell otherwise.
That is what the subjects will buy providing it is spun to them appropriately.
Propaganda has come a long way and is way more advanced than ever before.
How coincidental that today they “find” ricin in Las Vegas motel room?
You would have to agree that secret police in the new Evil Empire is way more sophisticated than one in the ex USSR?
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Mr. Big Mac you wrote:
“I trully believe that willing and faithful Catholics and Orthodox must continue to strive for reconciliation and unity. While full communion may not be within our grasp, certainly a workable relationship can and should be developed...as I believe is being done.”
Full communion? Really now. Just which side gives in? Immaculate Conception, Infallibility of the Holy Roman Pontiff & the doctrine on the procession of the Holy Ghost. Big Mac are the Roman Catholics the ones that have to give up these points in order for you to declare that a workable relationship is being done.
In case most of you have forgotten the problems caused by schism. Read the following from Pope Nicholas:
“It is now clearly demonstrated that Photius took part in the schism. He left the world to be ordained bishop by Gregory of Syracuse, who had been deposed and excommunicated some time before. Like a thief in the night who enters the flock to steal away sheep, he usurped the See of Constantinople from our Brother Patriarch Ignatius. Afterward, he joined those who had condemned our Predecessor of happy memory, Pope Benedict. Breaking his word, he convened a council in which he dared to anathematize and depose our Brother Patriarch Ignatius. Acting against the law of the peoples [Jus gentium], he corrupted the emissaries of this Holy See and obliged them to scorn and disobey our commands. He persecuted - and to this date still persecutes - the Church, and ceaselessly inflicts terrible sufferings on the Holy Patriarch Ignatius, our Brother.
“By the authority of Almighty God, the Apostles Sts. Peter and Paul and all the Saints, and the six General Councils, the Holy Ghost pronounces this judgment through us: Let this Photius, guilty of so many crimes, be deprived of every priestly honor and every ecclesiastical function.
“Let him be excluded without hope of re-entering the communion of the Church. Let him be anathematized without receiving the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, except in danger of death.”
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that should be: Pope St. Nicholas the Great
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Charles you wrote:
“Catholics, pursuant to the return of the East to the unity of the Catholic Church, the defense of Christendom, and resistance to the usurpations of sovereignty by global democratism and Revolution, must wholeheartedly support resistance to the perfidious machinations of the US, UN, and EU for domination of Eurasia through capitalism and democratism.”
Charles please keep in mind just who it was that the UN EU USA & Russia replaced as the authority in Europe and the rest of the world. And please keep in mind the instruments that brought all this about.
Question for all those here who claim that religion is not a factor in Kosovo. Just please tell me about all this I hear about Kosovo being someone’s Jerusalem?
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Forrest: “the major fact that needs to find a way to your head mikes out at 7.62mm.”
That’s what I call reasoned argument. Do you make a habit of shooting people who don’t share your illusions or beliefs? What does “mikes out” mean?
As for secret police in the New Empire, I urge everyone to search on “Echelon”, a global surveillance system that has been built up by the US in cooperation with other Western capitalist countries, including Sweden, where I live. For example, all telephone (including mobile), Internet, telex (if that still exists), fax and other electronic communications in Europe are routinely (24/7) monitored with the help of so-called dictionaries, i.e. lists of words and phrases stored in servers that trigger downloading of specific communications. The main relay station in Europe for forwarding intercepted communications to Langley is in the UK. There is also a large relay station in Australia that transmits information to the US.
The effects are sometimes comic. In the autumn of 2006 an elderly woman in the north of Sweden wrote an indignant letter to Dubya in which she accused him of the crimes that he has perpetrated. About 3 weeks later she was visited by two agents of the Swedish secret police (Säpo, pronounce saypo) who wanted to ask her about her political opinions. She refused to let them in, although their inquiries were justified under the new EU so-called terrorist law, which allows any authority to question and arrest anyone on suspicion of terrorist activities, with or without evidence. It also allows extradition to foreign countries (read USA) without prior hearings in the European country of residence.
As to false flag operations, there’s an interesting article by a former US intelligence officer at http://www.globalresearch.ca
I suggest that those who believe that religion is a a major issue in Kosovo should relax and leave the resolution of all issues to the Supreme Deity, who does not and has never existed. While you’re waiting you should read the works of Baruch Spinoza and then study Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. I gave my son Darwin’s book when he was 16, and after he read it he told me that it was the sovereign cure for supernatural beliefs. “No one can believe there is a god after reading this”.
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FactFinder you wrote:
“As for secret police in the New Empire, I urge everyone to search on “Echelon”, a global surveillance system that has been built up by the US in cooperation with other Western capitalist countries, including Sweden, where I live. For example, all telephone (including mobile), Internet, telex (if that still exists), fax and other electronic communications in Europe are routinely (24/7) monitored with the help of so-called dictionaries, i.e. lists of words and phrases stored in servers that trigger downloading of specific communications. The main relay station in Europe for forwarding intercepted communications to Langley is in the UK. There is also a large relay station in Australia that transmits information to the US.”
That is why my plan for world domination by electing the Next Holy Roman Emperor is fool proof. This word Holy Roman Emperor is not in use anymore because most believe it is a defunct institution and the word has been relegated only to the history books… ha.. ah.. ha…ha….knock …knock… what the?…
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FactFinder you wrote:
“I suggest that those who believe that religion is a a major issue in Kosovo should relax and leave the resolution of all issues to the Supreme Deity, who does not and has never existed. While you’re waiting you should read the works of Baruch Spinoza and then study Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. I gave my son Darwin’s book when he was 16, and after he read it he told me that it was the sovereign cure for supernatural beliefs. “No one can believe there is a god after reading this”.
And to prove the existence of God to the likes of you with just one small miracle is the Election of the next Holy Roman Emperor in our lifetime. And with this small miracle, also replacing the authority of the UN & EU with this Sacred Institution -The Holy Roman Empire. Europe will once again be governed by the Laws of the Holy Roman Emperor. The new world order will perish. All in our lifetime.
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Forrest:
You seem to be saying that your only argument is a bullet. It doesn’t sound very convincing. Assuming that you actually have shot people who didn’t share your illusions, which we can only assume unless you can give us chapter and verse, did you do so in the name of democracy? God? Jesus? Was it just to satisfy your blood lust? Or did you need the money? Were all the people you shot Communists, or were there others whose views on civilization didn’t coincide with yours? Were they armed when you shot them? How old were they? Did you shoot hem in the back? How many more would you like to kill?
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After the party comes the hangover !
The muslims of Kosovo having drunk themselves silly that fateful sunday evening on vast quantities of alcohol (and then the following day appealed to the very sober islamic world for recognition) are now starting to experience what will turn out to be the longest slowest and most painful hangover ever seen. This abomination of a ‘country’ will consume itself in an orgy of alcohol ,drugs,forced prostitution and slavery,internicine clan honour killings, and ulimately a civil war between those loyal albanians who accept serious autonomy within the legal and historic borders of Serbia,and those who want to maintain their narcotic funded and war criminal led regime.
I would say this time it will take 5 to 20 years as opposed to the 500 years it took Serbia last time to take back what is theirs.When the empire supporting this criminal regime in Pristina weakens then it will all change.
Like before the when the Ottomans left, then Austro -Hungary left, then Hitler left then the Croat Communist Tito left and sooner or later the latest empire will leave.Serbia is a graveyard for empires
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i have not read all comments here, so i’ll just make my point.
it seems some of commenters fail to see what is wrong with Kosovo independence declaration. the problem lies here: if you permit independence of Kosovo, then you should permit it to others: Abkhazia, Palestine, Kurdistan, Basque Country, Kashmir, Tibet.. the list is long. don’t think that’s going to happen, as most of, lets say, ‘parent’ states are either too strong to take them head on or a ‘friend’ of omnipotent America. map here clearly illustrates my point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kosovo_relations.svg
Kosovo’s independence is tolerated only because US has some obscure ‘strategic’ interests there.
so, please, spare me hypocrisy.
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To protect myself from “Big Mac’s” defamatory remarks: I am not pro or anti the Serbs or the Albanians. Posted by Sid Cundiff on Feb 28, 2008.
Could have fooled me. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck it is most likely a duck. By that standard Sid, you certainly look like a bigot who hates the Orthodox. Please explain to me how blowing up Christian Orthodox Churches is good for Christianity. Other than Mother Teresa, what have the Albanians done for Christianity? How was siding with the facists good for Christianity? The Serbs aren’t perfect (none of us are), but they are closer to us than the Albanians will ever be. Of course Bush and Clinton sided with them, but that was about short term gains in diversion, money, and power.
Signed,
A Lutheran
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Clarification - Bush and Clinton sided with the Albanians.
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And to prove the existence of God to the likes of you with just one small miracle is the Election of the next Holy Roman Emperor in our lifetime. And with this small miracle, also replacing the authority of the UN & EU with this Sacred Institution -The Holy Roman Empire. Europe will once again be governed by the Laws of the Holy Roman Emperor. The new world order will perish. All in our lifetime.
Posted by Michael Warning on Feb 29, 2008.
YIKES! Sounds like something out of Revelations!
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Long lives Kurds. Long live Talysh. Long live Tajiks. Long live Armenians. Death to Pan-Turkism.
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MIchael Warning,
There is no such a thing as a Kosovar. Kosovo belongs to
Albanians now and we will always be grateful
to US and people like you for support.
As for those who think that we are not free now, it’s a
simple propaganda. We have had excellent relationship with
NATO and we are confident they will defend our country in
the future.
As for those who say Kosovo is a Muslim state, that is not
true. We may be Muslims but we are a multiethinic
secular state that will give minority rights that are
among the best in Europe. With 16,000 NATO soldiers, who
believes that terrorist will ever infiltrate Kosovo?
We will never allow terrorist to operate from our country.
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Correct analysis by Mr Gvosdev. US have become a dishonest government, ready to lie to get something and then claim it never happened. Worse, the recognition of Kosovo can best be explained by corruption at the highest levels of US government. Several million in the right accounts and George and Bill are your uncles. Fortunately, such a state of affairs usually indicates a decline of a power.
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Mr Mark you wrote:
“Could have fooled me. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck it is most likely a duck. By that standard Sid, you certainly look like a bigot who hates the Orthodox. Please explain to me how blowing up Christian Orthodox Churches is good for Christianity. Other than Mother Teresa, what have the Albanians done for Christianity? How was siding with the facists good for Christianity? The Serbs aren’t perfect (none of us are), but they are closer to us than the Albanians will ever be. Of course Bush and Clinton sided with them, but that was about short term gains in diversion, money, and power.
Signed,
A Lutheran”
Am I missing something here? Sid has never written anything bigoted against the Serbs.
Please be fair to the Man.
On the other hand I can easily say along with the Roman Catholic Church and Her doctrine on the Social Reign of the Kingship of Christ- that error has no rights.
The Serb Orthodox are in error on many issues and they have been for about what? some 1000 years.
A Lutheran calling a Faithful Roman Catholic a Bigot?? Ha that’s funny.
“In the End My Immaculate Heart will Triumph” Our Lady of Fatima.
This means either the Orthodox Serbs will convert en-mass to the One True Faith --The Holy Roman Catholic Faith or they will perish.
Now the likes for you Mr Mark A Lutheran may object to the above and call others names like bigot and what not. But please a question for any of you who read these words, how can one defend Truth without stepping on some toes?? Completely ridiculous to think other wise.
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Mr Mike you wrote:
“After the party comes the hangover !”
At first when I read this line I thought that what would follow would be the description of the drunken Serbian rioters who went on a drunken rampage through the streets of Belgrade destroying the US embassy along with other embassies. I expected a description of hooliganism, theft and resisting arrest. But no, instead you complain about the neighbors.
Ha ha ha.. what nonsense. Lets not forget the Serb who died in the US embassy. Will the media tell us the circumstances surrounding his or her death? Will we get a name?
Was this poor soul a victim or one the drunken thugs who accidentally set himself on fire?
What I find so dishonest is the fact that we have comments posted on how evil the citizens of Kosovo are, but what I have been reading lately is the bad actions of the Serbs.
Please do us all a favor. If the citizens of Kosovo commit any evils against the Serbian nation then please post such new items. Do not tell us how evil you think your neighbors are.
So far the bad behavior is on the side of the Serbian Nation.
This is current events. tell me what takes place here and now, not what you think took place way back when or what you might think may happen, But tell us what actually is taking place.
So far the Serbs are the losers in this “drama” and will continue to be if they keep it up.
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Has anyone here, that is neither Serb nor Albanian, actually BEEN to Kosovo? Or even Serbia? I have. It was a very sobering experience and I can recommend it to all.
Belgrade is quite charming. A part of the West it certainly isn’t.
Kosovska Mitrovica, the northern stronghold of the Serbs in Kosovo, is such an incredibly backward place that one is led to believe that there must have been a mistake somewhere. Hey, they sent me to Iraq, those idiots, I was heading for Europe, but this place is not even the right continent.
The first thing they warn you about is the water. Don’t drink it. Then they warn you about the bloodthirsty Albanians. Avoid them.
After a while you learn that the warning about the water was well founded, while the warning about the Albanians was not.
It turns out that the paranoia of the Serbs is so strong that they truly believe in all those incredible stories they tell you. You filter half of it, but the rest sticks. However, reality doesn’t check. The Serbs are simply projecting their evil onto the others. Like their people did in the conflicts Bosnia and Croatia before that.
Guess who burnt and dynamited Catholic churches and Muslim mosques in Bosnia? The Serbs did. Who kept rape camps, torture camps and concentration camps? The Serbs did. Who at the same time complained the most about “fascists” and “mujahedins” wanting to rape, torture and kill them. The Serbs did.
Who claimed that they had a right to chop off a third of Croatia, just because they were supposedly a majority in those areas? The Serbs did. Who claimed they had a right to more than half of Bosnia, because… for whatever reason. The Serbs did. Guess who then claimed that Albanians can’t chop off a part of Serbia just because they’re a majority there? The Serbs did.
I have never encoutered a people so paranoid, psychotic and evil as the Serbs. Those five centuries under the Turks have certainly harmed them.
All you clueless people who mindlessly support them, go to their country. Visit it as tourists or in whatever capacity possible. You will then finally understand who and what they are.
Supporting evil is being evil.
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Craig Senna,
You are almost believable, except that you are not! Facts:
In May 2006, Kosovo Albanians tried to blow up Fort Dix (not a fiction of anyone’s imagination, but an actual event).
Human Rights Watch reports (easily accessible info online) that all Albanians from Kosovo were repatriated while 2/3 of the Serbian population ethnically cleansed from Kosovo (may be you were one of those NATO guys facilitating the cleansing of the Serbian innocent population).
Albanian fascists killed and expelled hundreds of thousands of Serbs in WWII from Kosovo, while Serbs were fighting on the side of the US and other allies (I know that ignoramuses like yourself might have a tough time reading history books, but you should try it sometime - it’s quite enlightening).
Albanian Mafia in the West financed and continues to finance the Kosovo Albanian leadership - that same mafia is not only in control of 25% to 40% of heroin annually according to Interpol and FBI, but they actually threatened the lives of Giuliani and certain other American officials in 1985, when Giuliani was a NY prosecutor.
Kosovo Albanians have strong ties to Al Qaida, and Osama bin Laden had training camps in Kosovo in the 1990’s.
The allegations of Serbian “rape” and “concentration” camps were so ridiculous, that all such claims were removed from charges by the Hague prosecutors against any and all Serbian defenders for the wars in Bosnia and Croatia. Kosovo genocide charges were dropped against Milosevic in 2004, again, since there was nothing but fiction to support them (again, this is all very, very easy to check).
That said, I sincerely doubt that you were in Kosovo or Mitrovica. You probably wish you were and convinced yourself to believe that lie. Good luck spreading them - facts are stacked against you!!!
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Mr. Senna,
The questions you ask can be reversed on you:
If Kosovo can break away, why then cannot the Serbs of Bosnia break away?
If it was bad to drive the Albanians of Kosovo out of Kosovo, why was it not bad that the Serbs of Croatia be driven away four years previous?
It is this kind of double-talking that has left the Serbs scratching their heads about us.
As for dynamiting Churches/mosques, that was done all round. Who dynamited the famous bridge in Mostar? It wasn’t the Serbs. They had already been ethnic cleansed from there. Where are the Serbian Churches of Hercegovina?
Anyway, anybody who can write such a hateful screed as you have strikes me as a person with issues. Perhaps you should pay attention to your own sage diagnoses and ask whether you are not projecting your own evil onto the Serbs.
BTW, I, a non-Serb, have been to Belgrade several times and have found the city and its inhabitants to be both charming and European. I don’t know what lofty criteria you are applying but I would be interested to see what they are.
You also make another point about the Battles of Nicopolis and Angora. Sure, a segment of the Serbs (under Lazarevic) helped the Ottomans, but that as because they were their vassals, They were obligated to. In the case of the Battle of ANgora, that may’ve been commendable. Just imagine if the Mongols won? In the 1500s, however, they also led uprisings against the Ottomans. Be that as it may, it is not as though the Westerners have a clean lsate on this. Don’t forget that the most heinous act in history--the Sack of Constantinople in 1204--was done by the Westerners. No wonder that some Orthodox stayed suspicious of us.
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Craig Senna
As a Serb, I would agree that Albanians are not as bad as Serbs want them to look and that Serbs are not as good as they want the others to believe (far from that), but aren’t you forgetting the 2004 when Albanians burned many Serbian houses and churches, blew up busses (with people inside), killed those who could not escape etc. That was only what the controlled media were reporting. As in any conflict, there must be more under the surface. In your post there goes blah, blah of Serbs murdering the others while disregarding quite comparable atrocities committed by the others. I lost interest sending URLs, please look up at independent web sites if you are really interested (certainly not Fox, CNN or BBC)
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“A Lutheran calling a Faithful Roman Catholic a Bigot?? Ha that’s funny.”
Posted by Michael Warning on Mar 01, 2008.
I very rarely use the term; however, it applied to some of the posters on this board based on their posts. As for Lutherans and Catholics, both share the shame for filling the ranks of the fascists armies. The Lutherans in Germany and the Catholics in Germany, Italy, and even in Spain (though Spain sat WWII out). There is blood on both of our hands. Because of this history, I am very careful to follow Christ and not necessarily Church leaders who are weak men subject to corruption. You on the other hand make statements such as the following:
“This means either the Orthodox Serbs will convert en-mass to the One True Faith --The Holy Roman Catholic Faith or they will perish.”
or,
“And to prove the existence of God to the likes of you with just one small miracle is the Election of the next Holy Roman Emperor in our lifetime. And with this small miracle, also replacing the authority of the UN & EU with this Sacred Institution -The Holy Roman Empire.”
WOW! There was nothing “sacred” about the old Holy Roman Empire. There is no reason to believe a new one would be any better. If Christ himself rejected the idea of an empire on earth, why should real Christians try to establish one. Our Kingdom is not of this world. The Orthodox are our Christian brothers and are part of God’s Church just as we are. The Church is defined as believers in Christ and His Word. Putting your faith in men places you in the same territory as the Lutherans and Catholics who served Hitler’s armies. Interesting, if I remember correctly, your present Pope also served in Hitler’s army. Look to Christ Michael.
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Mr. Mark you wrote: “YIKES! Sounds like something out of Revelations!”
No, more appropriately from Ecclesiastes:
What is it that hath been? the same thing that shall be. What is it that hath been done? the same that shall be done. Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us…..we cannot add any thing, nor take away from those things which God hath made that he may be feared. That which hath been made, the same continueth: the things that shall be, have already been: and God restoreth that which is past. Ecclesiastes
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No one need feel any shame fighting for Hitler any more than one need to feel shame fighting for the mass murderers Roosevelt and Churchill.
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@ Craig Senna & Michael Warning
The authors who have written on this site against the recognition of Kosovo as an independent state have done so from the position of right and wrong with respect to the UN charter, international law, and acceptable conduct among sovereign nations.
You have written on the topic from the position of personal likes and dislikes; it seems dislikes for the Serbs and likes for the Albanians. You have therefore disqualified yourself from any serious discussion on the topic. You may go on cheering, but a sports stadium is a more suitable venue for such an activity. This is a web site for serious adults discussing serious matters.
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@ Michael Warning
You wrote: “Full communion? Really now. Just which side gives in? Immaculate Conception, Infallibility of the Holy Roman Pontiff & the doctrine on the procession of the Holy Ghost.”
By ‘doctrine on the procession of the Holy Ghost’ you must mean the filioque clause. Those who reject filioque simply take the Lord at his word, as in John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.”
Those who accept filioque must somehow believe that they know better than the Lord; please explain how.
And if you disagree with that you probably also disagree with Pope Leo III, the one who crowned Charlemagne and thereby created the office of the Holy Roman Emperor (quoting from Wikipedia):
Leo forbade the addition of “filioque” to Nicene Creed which was added by Franks in Aachen in 809. He also ordered that the Nicene creed be engraved on silver tablets so that his conclusion might not be overturned in the future. He wrote «HAEC LEO POSUI AMORE ET CAUTELA ORTHODOXAE FIDEI» (I, Leo, put here for love and protection of orthodox faith)(VITA LEONIS, LIBER PONTIFICALIS (Ed.Duchene, TII, p.26)
You also wrote: “That is why my plan for world domination by electing the Next Holy Roman Emperor is fool proof.”
Thanks for being honest about what you’re really interested in. The Lord said in John 18:36
“My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
Also in John 14:30
“I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.”
Since you seek world domination, I don’t know what kind of “god” you believe in, but it doesn’t seem to be Lord Jesus Christ, your shrouding yourself in Catholicism notwithstanding.
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Mr. Vissarion Dzugahvili you wrote:
“ By ‘doctrine on the procession of the Holy Ghost’ you must mean the filioque clause. Those who reject filioque simply take the Lord at his word, as in John 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.”
“Those who accept filioque must somehow believe that they know better than the Lord; please explain how.”
Really? What about these words of Our Lord:
But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go: for if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. Jn 16:7
When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.Jn 20:22
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@ Michael Warning
You haven’t proven anything.
Just because the Lord can send the Holy Spirit does not mean that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him, the Son. Had the Lord claimed so, he could have said so, but he didn’t.
If you accept that the sending assumes procession, then you must assume that the Son proceeds from the Father, which is wrong; the Father beget the Son. Your own quote disputes your argument.
John 20:21-22
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”
Father has sent the Son, but the Son does not proceed from the Father. Likewise, Son send the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son; he doesn’t have to.
To argue otherwise would be to argue against common sense.
And of course, you didn’t reply anything about Pope Leo III… how convenient of you.
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Michael Warning really sends chills up the spine. I wish he would present himself for whatever he is or stands for - are you an agitator looking to bring more discord between Catholics and Orthodox? Or are you trully a Catholic of the deranged sort that marches to checkerboard flags and believes in siding with Islamic barbarians in order to murder as many Orthodox faithful as possible? Either way, one wonders how a true Christian could wish for the destruction of fellow Christians. As far as having been there - I make no secret of teh fact that I am a Serb and have frequently travelled to former Yugoslavia. I was actually in Kosovo during the years of lock down when there were “protests” by Albanian groups. The politically correct communist party back then, like the Washington of today, dared not communicate openly of what was going on as Albanians were rampaging (yet again). I have also been to towns like Skopjle which are little more than Albanian dominated Middle-Eastern towns these days. Anyone who has trully been there would regognize European Belgrade and Middle-Eastern Albanian cities instantly.
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Mr. Vissarion Dzugahvili you wrote: “Thanks for being honest about what you’re really interested in. The Lord said in John 18:36 “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
If you love me, keep my commandments. Does not this apply to society as well as individuals? Are not the laws of a nation used to promote virtue and prohibit vice? How difficult it is to promote virtue among citizens when the laws of the nation are contrary to the commandments of Jesus Christ. Society at large has to obey and keep the commandments of Our Lord, and this is manifested in the laws that it makes and enforces. No one person or nation is exempt from these words: If you love me, keep my commandments.
But the most bizarre take on all this comes from the conservative ranks. How many times does the world have to read about the moral failures of the Neo-con this or the paleo-con that? Tell us again and again how the UN EU USA have laws on the books that are immoral. But do any of you “conservatives” have any clue on how to change things for the better? Or do you all sit around and complain? Most of you conservatives have already shot yourself in the foot by declaring that Kingdom of Jesus Christ is not of this world. Hinting of course that there is no moral recourse for men in this life to best govern themselves. No need to pay attention to the Laws of the Holy Roman Emperor, no need to re-establish the Justinian Codex.
So now the entire world is in a violently agitated godless state. Nations do not heed these words of Our Lord: “If you love me, keep my commandments.” Everything is now secular. The light to guide men in temporal matters has been extinguished by bad men. All of you “conservatives” pretend that the only way to diminish the authority of the Holy Roman Emperor is to quote out of context the words of Our Lord “My kingdom is not of this world” therefore no need to heed the authority of the Holy Roman Emperor. No need to look to this Sacred institution to help man.
So I ask again what does a Taki reader or Chronicles reader call himself? You reject the UN EU USA etc..But please tell me what do you have to replace what you reject? All the world would like to know.
My father laid upon you a heavy yoke, which I will make heavier: my father beat you with scourges, but I will beat you with scorpions.
Get use to it.
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Mr. Vissarion Dzugahvili you wrote:“And of course, you didn’t reply anything about Pope Leo III… how convenient of you.”
Certainly do not need to answer all of your questions.
Procession of the Holy Ghost from The Father and The Son was faithfully preserved in Christian tradition:
the dogmatic letter of St. Leo I to Turribius, Bishop of Astorga, Ep. XV, c. i (447);
the Athanasian Creed;
several councils held at Toledo in the years 447, 589 (III), 675 (XI), 693 (XVI);
the letter of Pope Hormisdas to the Emperor Justius, Ep. lxxix (521);
St. Martin I’s synodal utterance against the Monothelites, 649-655;
Pope Adrian I’s answer to the Caroline Books, 772-795;
the Synods of Mérida (666), Braga (675), and Hatfield (680);
the writing of Pope Leo III (d. 816) to the monks of Jerusalem;
the letter of Pope Stephen V (d. 891) to the Moravian King Suentopolcus (Suatopluk), Ep. xiii;
the symbol of Pope Leo IX (d. 1054);
the Fourth Lateran Council, 1215;
the Second Council of Lyons, 1274; and the
Council of Florence, 1439.
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Yup, deranged nut, this Michael Warning.
Perhaps we “conservatives” stand for culture of a foregone type that does not manifest itself in imperial ambitions of the sort which you seek, but why don’t you enlighten us? Who is he and where is this fantastic Holy Roman Emperor that you want us to follow? Perhaps I am confused? Do you now mean the throne at St. Peters? Does the Pope now wish political and spiritual leadership? Perhaps the memo went to you and they got my email wrong.
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Well, lets return to the Kosovo. Myself thinks that it is indeed unique. No problem to form a theory of PIL on that, but it is allready unique because the US wants it to be. What is PIL today? Mostly trash, trashed in Iraq and Afghanistan. But a nice analogy comes to mind to that Clinton/Russian compromis sanitair, accepting Serbian sourveraignity over Kosovo while administrating it: the clean way the Germans accepted Polish and Russian administration over the former Reichsgebiet. Those parts are all Poland and Russia now, well, Poland and Russia have not completely agreed yet and there are Germans who afre trying to buy Koenigsberg back. Well Koenigsberg, the town of Kant, what is the Kosovo compared to 6this?
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Well Koenigsberg, the town of Kant, what is the Kosovo compared to 6this?
Well, I may not disagree with you in principle, but my response is that Kosovo is the place where Christians took a stand and hampered to a good degree (the battle often chracaterized as a “defeat” was actually a draw) barbaric Turks from advancing so that men like Kant could do their work.
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All this irrelevant blather.
There is one inescapable fact. The 2 million Albanians in Kosovo do not want to be governed by Serbians. And why o