“unfortunate revolution.”
No, not at all, since it stemmed the tide of
western culture and kept it out of the middle
east for a time. Deaths of innocents are always unfortunate.  Allegiance to a nation-state as opposed to
allegiance to the family/clan will be the
downfall of the west. Bly said in Iron John
what we as humanity once had were
clan-defending warriors and the nation-state
turned them into soldiers fighting for people
they never knew and a cause they couldn’t
define, and the final transformation is from
soldier to murderer because of technology.
Oh, you don’t know the depths of my
disillusionment.

The Iranian revolution was unfortunate for Dr. Nasr, at least, a man who deplored the westernization and modernization under the Shah as much as you and I do.  And arguably the Islamicists are in their own way modern and western, untraditional, un-Iranian.

As a former subscriber to Triumph and an admirer of the late
Brent Bozell and Frederick D. Wilhelmssen, whom I once had
the honor to meet, learn from, and share dinner and drinks
with, I thank Mr. Purcell for this essay and information.
I will have to make it my business to learn more about CL.

So many outstanding things about this article.  I thank Frank Purcell. I especially applaud his comments on unity with the Eastern Churches, in including the Oriental and Coptic churches. I too plan to spend part of today learning about CL.

Serious social and political Catholicism needs to take seriously Catholic Social Teaching beginning with Leo XIII. Although this tradition has its roots in the French Legitimists, it’s not quite the same as “conservatism”, praiseworthy as it otherwise is. 

“Rich” needs to define “clan” for me. And just where in Catholic Teaching is a defense of “clan defending warriors”?

“our sickness is a sickness of the spirit that is not of today or of yesterday, but a progression measured in decades, nay in centuries, the centuries since what some are pleased to call a “Reformation,””

This apparently popular pasttime of blaming the demise of Western Civilisation on Protestantism is counterproductive, divisive, and plain wrong. From my vantage point, the Roman Catholic church is every bit as complicit in such demise as the Protestants. For example, in Australia, the Roman Catholic church has for long been a strident advocate of large scale Asian immigration (particularly of catholic Asians).

“This apparently popular pasttime of blaming the demise of Western Civilisation on Protestantism is counterproductive, divisive, and plain wrong.” The “Reformation” may well have been in part a reaction against things wrong with Western Christendom for quite some time, though also in part a continuation and intensification of unfortunate elements in Medieval Catholicism, and a reaction against healthy developments.

I for one do not see it as a crime against civilization to encourage Christian immigration into a Christian country, unless you mean that Catholics are not Christians, or you are simply using “Christian” to mean Caucasian, so that Chinese Catholics are not Christians, not because they are Catholic, but because they are Chinese.

An Air Force officer serving at a missile base probably wasn’t a pilot and the only thing he would have risked in Vietnam was getting a paper cut.  If he felt that strongly about nukes he could have simply quietly resigned his commission.  He almost certainly was a nut.  BTW, what sort of outfit did he think the Air Force was when he joined?  Was he not aware of the conventional bombing of cities the Air Force had engaged in?

The anti-nuke movement was red to its very core, it was a front movement regardless of the fact that a few silly hausfraus actually believed their agitprop.  Yes Virginia, there were communists, and a very nasty crew they were, too, and if it weren’t for the bomb millions of Christians like you (not exactly a Knight Templar, are you?) would have had a chance to experience the psycho-sexual martyrdom so many of them seem to long for.  And of course, they would have taken millions with them.

No, not a Templar exactly, nor any other sort of Freemason.  I probably have met more communists than Mr. Smith has, and I can confirm that they included quite a few truly nasty characters, and a good many more decent folks willing to do great evil in the vain hope that good would come of it, as indeed were most anticommunists, perhaps even Mr.Smith.  And many peace organizations were fronts and many of their members were dupes; some were not, including traditional Catholics.  As for the teaching of the Catholic Church at that time, there is probably no safer guide than Cardinal Ottaviani, head of the Holy Office, whom the “progressives” silenced at the Vatican Council by cutting the power to his microphone.  The quasipacifist teachings of the last and present Popes are no innovation.

I do not have easy access to my Triumph collection — I hope it is intact, but I seem to recall that the AF fellow in question was in fact a qualified pilot, with combat experience.

Ottaviani on war and peace:
http://www.oikonomia.it/pages/febb/classica.htm

@ ian, “For example, in Australia, the Roman Catholic church has for long been a strident advocate of large scale Asian immigration (particularly of catholic Asians).”

If Asian immigrants to Australia are Roman Catholics, then they belong to Western Civilisation (because what is more Western than the Roman Catholic Church?), and the Church in Australia is quite right to encourage their immigration here. 

@ John Smith, “The anti-nuke movement was red to its very core, it was a front movement regardless of the fact that a few silly hausfraus actually believed their agitprop.  Yes Virginia, there were communists...”

Well, you don’t need to tell ME about the reality of Communism; I lived in a Communist country for five years, and the government of that country, China, is still Communist to the core at least in its fanatical atheist materialism. 

But as for the anti-nuke movement, it was not a front for Communism; the Christians (and especially Catholics) in it were motivated by the Word of God, not the word of Marx or Lenin.  My parish Priest, in 1978, was in the anti-nuke movement and he wrote an article for the local newspaper, saying, “I saw a bumper sticker that said, ‘I’d rather be killing Communists.’ This disturbs me.  Rather be killing Communists?  Rather than WHAT?”

HAHA!  :-)

All nuclear weapons, ALL of them, are an offense to the Holy Trinity and especially to Jesus Christ.
This is one issue upon which I agree with
the many participants on this blog who say Truman committed a war crime by nuking Japan.  If being anti-nuke makes one a “Red”, then Jesus was, and eternally is, a Red.

Frank,

Thanks for this article! I’m sure you will appreciate this story on the beginnings of CL in America:

”Dear Madam [...] please be patient an you will see that something will happen soon”

John Smith,

I can’t believe that you are equating dropping bombs from the sky or a safer distance with knights who rode into battle with a sword and a shield. Whatever one believes of the Knights Templar they were no chickenhawks. Should we dub the neo-cons Knights Templar when they incinerate innocent civilians?  If it comes to that count me as one whom you describe as desiring psycho-sexual martyrdom, whatever that is.

“ ...  and reach out for reconciliation with the other remnants of traditional Christianity, that is, with Eastern Orthodoxy, with Oriental Orthodoxy, and with the even more ancient Church of the East, now threatened with extinction by America’s allies.”

Well, one can hardly oppose “reconciliation”—but this will evidently be something quite far from “union” or “re-union.”

Catholic-Orthodox dialogues been going on for some 40 years now. If the goal is indeed “full communion,” it’s no closer now than it was then.

It has been my experience that Catholics haven’t a very clear idea what Orthodoxy’s “terms” are if full communion is to be achieved. These are very well expressed by Protopresbyter Thomas Hopko in his landmark paper of 1995, “Roman Presidency and Christian Unity in our Time.”

For those who may be interested, here’s a link:

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/HopkoPope.php

CL’s official site: http://www.clonline.org/

Indeed, the US sacrificed its moral principles in the
altar of anti-communistm, and has been trying to live
without them ever since.

Sometimes I think that the only difference between
Right and Left is their belief in the Free Market, an
element in society which idolatry has promoted into
an object of worship. No one understands that the
Free Market is essentially amoral, and needs to be
informed of the difference between Right and Wrong
before it is allowed to act. 

Outside the Free Market, the Right and Left are equally
happy at tearing up traditional society, the Left for
the sake its remannts of ideology, the Right because
there is profit in it....

That’s why the Democratic Party repulses me less than
the Republicans, because one is the open enemy, and the
other is the traitor.  An avowed enemy can one day
become an ally, but you can never trust a traitor.

@ Frank Purcell and John Ball This quote I for one do not see it as a crime against civilization to encourage Christian immigration into a Christian country, unless you mean that Catholics are not Christians, or you are simply using “Christian” to mean Caucasian, so that Chinese Catholics are not Christians, not because they are Catholic, but because they are Chinese.

My question to you guys is, Are you Marxists? Other Catholics and myself see this stance of Frank Purcell, ensconced also in the American Bishops Conference, as scandalous, traitorious, and commie.

Usually Catholics are well educated but in this instance many Catholics like Frank Purcell and John Ball really don’t know what they are talking about. Catholics are know-nothings when it comes to race. (and no doubt the hackles right now are rising in righteous indignation over this) You may have “opinion” but you don’t have “science”. And you really don’t know what you are talking about or advocating.  Catholic teaching on Race is just Marxist teaching on race.

Funny, you never hear these Catholics mention the Natural Law or of “social cohesion”, they never quote scripture except the “love” scripture and they are absolutely clueless about the principle of Righteousness which is a fairly common appelation that God applies to himself. The word is “dikaiosyne” in the Septuagint but don’t bother asking a Catholic what it means---because it is and has never been preached from a pulpit, nor is it anywhere else.

Just because one is a “Catholic” doesn’t mean they have a “right” to go where they want.  An Asian Catholic is nowhere “Western Culture”.  Asian Catholics need to stay in Asian countries where they belong! Religion is not ‘race’ and ‘race’ is not religion. Becoming “Christian” doesn’t change one’s racial characteristics or proclivities.  How dumb of you to suggest so!

Are you Catholics up for a debate or will this be silenced? Because you people don’t have a clue!

I’ve read Mr Purcell’s article twice now and I have no clue at all what he is talking about.  The contradictions come so fast and furious that it is impossible to judge what point he is trying to make.

I think he is in favor of healing the tragic Greek Schism.  If so, I couldn’t agree more.  I think he is an admirer of Von Balthasar.  If so, he has fallen for the charms of one of the worst theological charlatans of modern times.

I shouldn’t be surprised, however.  Convoluted thinking is the norm in many Catholic circles today.

I do not mean to suggest that the troubles began in or around 1054, or that (Old) Rome was the focus of infection, as the Orthodox claim.  The fact that the Christian people of the Patriarchates of Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria, without changing religion, preferred Muslim rule to Imperial, speaks for itself.

I did not say that any Chinese have a right to move to Australia, God, (Thorr?) forbid.  I did rather imply that Australians have a right to let them in, to define their country in terms of Western, that is, Christian civilization, rather than Pagan, (that is, Oriental) racialism.  Or do they have no right to so define themselves?  Do the Nordic racialists in their midst refuse loyalty to any state that allows citizenship to non-Nordics?  If so these racialists are a hostile foreign body, much as Islamicist Muslims or some Orthodox Jews are said to be.  Come to think of it, I am beginning to understand the American situation better in this light…

Here are two quotes from Scriptures

“Every beast loveth his like and every man loveth his neighbor. All flesh consorteth according to kind, and a man will cleave to his like.” Book of Sirach, 13.15

“And all men are from the ground, and Adam was created of earth. In much knowledge the Lord hath divided them, and made their ways diverse. Some of them hath he blessed and exalted, and some of them hath he sanctified, and set near himself: but some of them hath he cursed and brought low, and turned out of their places. As the clay is in the potter’s hand, to fashion it at his pleasure: so man is in the hand of him that made him, to render to them as liketh him best.” Septuagint, Eccl. (book of Sirach), 36.10-13.

The Catholic and even the Orthodox Church are TOTALLY ignorant of these verses.  They don’t preach them, much less write on them. I picked up a book called “Theology and Race” written by a Jesuit with all sorts of Imprimaturs, no less, and there was NOT a single Biblical quote dealing with Race in it all.  How the Hell one talks about Theology on Race or about Race---when the Catholic Church avoids quoting anything about Race from its own Scriptures.

And Catholics are an authority about Race?  Frank Purcell and John Ball and all the Catholics and Clergy that are like them are Liars, Liars, Liars. You know NOTHING! You don’t know what is in the Bible--you don’t care, you don’t know anything in early world history and the laws against miscegenation in almost every culture in the world which bespeaks to the Natural Law.

To say that any, any Catholic or clergy can speak about matters of Race with any sort of authority is laughable, and disgusting. How can one speak on matters---which one refuses to know about is beyond me.  That any Catholic or clergy even opens his ignorant mouth on this matter is beyond me. What these Catholics are doing is spouting Propaganda---Marxist, Masonic Propaganda! But NOT science. It says in Scripture “Speak Truth at all Times” and the definition of Truth is “A faithful representation of reality”. If you can’t faithfully represent reality--you are a liar and should not be a Christian. There are Race Differences, God wants man to live in his own Tribe!!! That is a faithful representation of reality! Catholics should start to OBEY God!

I did not say that any Chinese have a right to move to Australia, God, (Thorr?) forbid.  I did rather imply that Australians have a right to let them in, to define their country in terms of Western, that is, Christian civilization, rather than Pagan, (that is, Oriental) racialism.

Ohh boy, When it says, “A Man Shall Cleave To His LIKE”, it means that a man not only marries his own--but also settles in a country that his is of his own! Christian Civilization, which is intimated by Mr. Purcell, is one that abrogates the Natural Law?  That Abrogation of the Natural Law is Christian?  Thatthe Natural Law is pagan and no Christian need obey it?  Christendom, to the forgetfullness, or ignorance of Mr. Purcell, was obedient to both the Divine Law and the Natural Law.  Truth Does Not Counterdict Truth. Christendom is built on two pillars; Res Divina and Res Publica. Both together in a Harmony.  That Australians which is an Anglo-Saxon nation must, (have the right to) bring in Asians is a total oxymoron.  How about the right to refuse?  is that a right?  How about the Right to Association? That Man shall Cleave to his LIKE not to the marxist multiculti world of dissimilars.

I didn’t deny Australians the right to keep Chinese out.  I simply admitted their right to let them in.  I also admit their right not to exterminate the Aborigines entirely.  And I suppose the Nordic Zionists have a right to set up an Asatru Utopia wherever they can come to a just understanding with the folks already in posession.  But I do not admit the right of racialists to describe their program as Christian in any Catholic or Orthodox understanding of the term.

Here’s the difference between true conservatives and race-cranks: Conservatives are willing to notice reality, and speak candidly about the many social problems which arise in a multiracial society-- to note the unlikelihood of true assimilation, to lament the ugliness of caste discrimination AND bureaucratic meddling in pursuit of equality, to insist on freedom of association and contract. Given all these problems, conservatives can question just HOW multi-racial, from a prudential point of view, one wants a society to become. Race cranks, on the other hand, make a moral fetish of their own particular race--and thus emulate the likes of Robert Mugabe and La Raza.

To say that any, any Catholic or clergy can speak about matters of Race with any sort of authority is laughable, and disgusting.

Put-up, Mr. Wheeler. Your racist idolatry is barbaric, unChristian, and execrable.

I have read far too many of your racist rants to take you seriously when it comes to your personal opinions and I know your ilk can not be shut-up.

So, I ask you to please post any Document from the Magisterium which comes within a galactic distance of your nutball racist ideology.

Begin your search here....

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html#THE%20UNITY%20OF%20THE%20PERSON

IOW, I do not care to read about your personal exegesis/eisegesis of Scripture, or your personal theory about this, or your personal ideas about that.

I want a Document from the Magisterium which teaches anything even remotely close to your racist idolatry.

Now that I have sent you on an endless search for a non-existing Document, for the benefit of others, I will post this…

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20010829_comunicato-razzismo_en.html

“I didn’t deny Australians the right to keep Chinese out.  I simply admitted their right to let them in.”

Frank, your arguments are at best disingenuous. In Australia, as presumably in many other western societies, there has never been a referendum on whether mass Asian immigration should be allowed. The politicians were well aware that such a referendum would be defeated. Instead, it was all done by backdoor methods, with foolish, traitorous organisations such as the Roman Catholic church happy to play along and provide “moral” support for the government. There appeared to be a large opportunistic element to this support, as they saw in mass immigration of Asian catholics a means of increasing church numbers and power, and a means of tapping into a large and growing market (ie Asian catholicism).

I think F.J. Sarto puts it very well above.  As a Christian, I believe that all people, regardless of race, are equal in the sight of God.  That does NOT mean that, in determining the political policies I favor, I am required to disregard what I see as clear empirical evidence regarding behavioral differences among racial groups as a whole.  That is, the premise that all races are judged equally by God does not imply that one may not take the view that the cohesiveness and stability of the U.S. (or any other Western country) requires that it remain predominantly European in ancestry and cultural background.

If you don’t want to be slapped with my clown bladder, don’t step on my clown shoes!

How seriously must we take the argument (?) that the Christian faith is false and the Catholic Church evil because the Aussies are being overrun by the Yellow Peril?

I am no expert on what’s going on Down There, but, for what it’s worth, it seems to me that a restriction of immigration might be prudent Up Here, though the main problem with immigration is government policies of racial favoritism which encourage the wrong people to come for the wrong reasons.  And there are many other reasons why those need to be fixed!

Slap!

St. Maximos the Confessor said, “One man with the Truth is the Majority”. Christianity is built on “Spirit and Truth”.

@I am not Spartacus

In the New Modern Roman Catholic Theology, ONLY the Magesterium has the right to teach.  See, Roman Catholic mentality is that the Magesterium is the Church.  Well, in the Orthodox Church, it is the total Church, Clergy AND LAITY that are responsible for the integrity of the Deposit of Faith. If the Laity doesn’t agree---No Go.

See what has happened is that the Roman Catholic (RC) Church has denied the Laity with any sort of responisibility for the Faith. The laity have NO place.

Well, “I am not Spartacus”, the Magisterium is NOT the Church and the Church is NOT the Magesterium!!! St. Paul said, “The CHURCH is the pillar of Truth”.  St. Paul did NOT say “The Magesterium is the pillar of the Church”.

So you can take your “magesterium” and shove it where .....

The RC Church is in Heresy. The magesterium is in Heresy. I have every Christian Duty to speak the Truth, and I will!

We are to take it that there has been no communist, masonic infiltration of the Church? That there is no judiaizing going on in the Church? Your so-called ‘magesterium’ is corrupted with masons, communists, Socialists. Malachi Martin, in his book The Keys of This Blood, points out to the New World Order of Globalization. He also writes of Romes reaction---they are going to play along, that Rome is seeking to be a player in the Globalization process for Rome is seeking to be a power.  Instead of preaching against Globalization----it has sided with Evil---instead of Good!

I have every right to speak out against the Heresy in the Roman Catholic Church and it IS IN Heresy!

Now in the first document that “I am not Spartacus” links to does have a quote from the Book of Sirach but it doesn’t quote the ones I pointed out!

Now, people I am to obey the Magesterium---that denies, obscures, refuses to quote, from the WHOLE word of God? Don’t you think that if I am going to talk about race----I would be using all the texts in the Bible that relate to Race? And I am supposed to have ‘blind obedience’ to the Church---that can not fully, rightly quote from its own Scriptures? I don’t think so. I don’t need the “magesterium” to tell me what I can know and read with my own two eyes.  That the Church is ignorant of what is in its own books---is a sign of its total ignorance on any subject dealing with Race.

Can any Catholic produce a single Catholic document/writing anywhere that use, quote, those two extracts from the Book of Sirach? Please do link. But I already know the answer---there isn’t any!

For on the link this is stated “144.the radical equality and brotherhood among all people, regardless of their race, nation, sex, origin, culture, or class.” Now please go to this quote in the Book of Sirach: “In much knowledge the Lord hath divided them, and made their ways diverse.” It says that God made their ways Diverse. That means “unequal”. So when did “egalitarianism” become Church policy?  In masonic literature is this “Liberty, Equality, Fraternity”; it was also used in the French Revolution. Yet, this, “Liberty, Equality, Fraternity”, seems to be the basis of modern Catholic Social Doctrine---not Scripture! Aren’t all things in hierarchy?

This Scripture “Some of them hath he blessed and exalted, and some of them hath he sanctified, and set near himself: but some of them hath he cursed and brought low, and turned out of their places. As the clay is in the potter’s hand, to fashion it at his pleasure: so man is in the hand of him that made him, to render to them as liketh him best.” counterdicts completely and fully that sentence in that Catholic Social Doctrine link.

The Scriptures teach in Genesis chapter 10, that man was living in nations/races.  In Chapter 11, those races started to coalesce into the Tower of Babel.  God Destroyed that.  God also implanted the spirit of Belonging and volkenhass in order to keep them seperated, to keep them from coalescing. It is Masonic and Communist Ideology that is about building a New World Order, about returning to a World Unity.

I find it hard to believe that Christian theology and teaching is based on Masonic/Communist/kabalah teachings. It says in Scripture in at least three places that the Plan and Will of God is for man to live in a Race, with his own kind. That is the OLD order. My job is to “"""conserve"""" the Old Order.  What I see on this website is that some “‘“"catholic conservatives"""" are not about preserving or conserving the Old Order but are pushing the New Order of Globalization.

The difference between Marxist teaching on race and the Catholic Church?

Marxism believes in mankind itself has the ability to transform itself and society; mankind is it’s own savior.  Race is blotted out by man himself through government programs and miscegenation.

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, teaches that man is to transformed at the End Time by God Himself; Jesus is the Savior of mankind.  Race is transformed with the Resurrection.  In the meantime it is not a sin to theorize, say, some races of Negroes have lower IQs than some (or most) of the various European races.

In The End (and I mean the VERY END) race doesn’t matter.  You might make a fetish out of it today, but don’t be foolish and make it sinful.

“I have every right to speak out against the Heresy in the Roman Catholic Church and it IS IN Heresy!”
You have no right to do so because error has no rights. Why, Mr. WLindsayWheeler, must we listen to your incessant race baiting, but even worse than that, your ignorant ranting against the Catholic Church?  You seem mighty desperate to “prove” your position which, like the hundreds of Protestant sects, defines itself by its protest, and its severed relationship with, the Catholic Church. In fact, without the Catholic Church, you, and your false structure, would cease to exist.  You were in schism in 1054 and you are in schism still.  Yours is but one more heretical branch which has severed itself from the true vine and withered away, even if keeping some Catholic truths and traditions.
FYI, “magisterium” means “teaching authority”, the very authority your false Church lacks; which is why you have had to come up with such a novel definition for the “magisterium” of the Orthodox Church. Yours is a consensus by fallible committee, which gets it terribly wrong.  For example, your teaching on the non-existence of Purgatory is a classic example of having no authority to teach and no infallible capacity to understand divine revelation - you just don’t get it - so you shoot in the dark and have the audacity to list “demands” of the Catholic Church in matters of your man-made doctrines before you will grace us with your return to the only hope of your salvation. 
The laity has more of a “teaching” place in the Catholic Church than they do in the Orthodox - so who are you trying to kid?  The very fact that we have an infallible teaching authority allows the laity to defend the Faith with an infallible certitude when they remain faithful to the deposit of faith and to magisterial teaching. Again, we know there is a Purgatory because our Lord, who speaks with authority through His Church, infallibly said so.  It was to Peter that our Lord said: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven” (Matt 16:19).  The Orthodox have no such authority to “bind” heaven and earth on matters of faith and morals - none. Your so-called “authority” is ill-begotten, illicit and null and void.
It is not true that “In the New Modern Roman Catholic Theology, ONLY the Magesterium has the right to teach”. There is nothing “New” about the magisterium and while every Catholic has the duty to profess and defend the Faith, only those commissioned by ecclesiastical authority have the said “right”. 
You need not take scandal by the fact that there has been an insidious infiltration of the Church by those who wish to destroy her - this is, after all, the stuff of innumerable prophesies, beginning with our Lord’s own warnings against the infiltratration of the enemy as being a sure signs of the end times.  It reminds one of taking scandal at the humanity and death of our Lord.  But this does not work in your favor - no, just the opposite - for why should Satan bother with the infiltration of a non-threatening man-made organization, such as your own, when his work there has already been done? 
But make no mistake about it Mr. Wheeler, while the Catholic Church must experience her Gethsemane and Crucifixion before the Son of Man returns, eclipsed by the visible outer corruption of fallible human weakness, there remains in her care the infallible and still intact deposit of faith - and the still pure and spotless Mystical Body of the Redeemer - whose children shall not abandon her in these days of diabolical disorientation - which tests the faith of all men. 
We would welcome your return and the return of all of those who remain separated from her - even those who rail against her like the misbehaving children that they are.

“There are Race Differences, God wants man to live in his own Tribe!!! That is a faithful representation of reality! Catholics should start to OBEY God!”

Posted by WLindsayWheeler on Jan 02, 2008.

And God has revealed Himself to the different races and peoples in different ways, depending on their ability to comprehend Him; thus He communes with His creatures in a variety of ways.  Those who believe in diversity as it is currently defined, i.e. forced integration, would see an end of diversity and rob us of the joys of experiencing other cultures as we wish; whether God will stand for this is another matter.

Once again from the top:

1. Ancestry is not the same as patrimony.

2. The “Culture” of an ethnos is a collection of folkways.  These folkways are the product of a group’s long history, not of “race”.

3. “Race” is a fairy tale told first by Arthur de Gobineau.

4. “Race” has nothing to do with patrimony, ethnos, folkways, or history.  If it exists at all, it is as important for the judgement of a person as his eye color.  The Serbs and the Croats are of the same “race”; the West Indians and the Pre-1808 American Blacks are of the same “race”; the Ulster Orangemen and Ulster Green Irish are of the same “race”.  The respective folkways are radically different.  QED.

5. Some folkways are better than others; e.g., folkways that don’t kill children are better than folkways that do. QED.

6. People can change their folkways and adopt a new Patrimony, preferably for the better; e.g. Germanic, Slavanic, and Celtic wildmen adopting a Semitic/Mediterranean religion, “Christianity” by name” QED

7. Western Patrimony for everyone who wants it! 

Kudos to those Catholics who defend the Magisterium’s opposition to racialism.

The dividing line between an orthodox Christian today and a heretic is the correct teaching of Race.  The dividing line between a true conservative today and a psuedo-conservative, a faux-conservative, a neo-con, is the correct understanding of Race.

Race is central for today.  The globalization, universalist ideology now be taught everywhere is akin to the Arian heresy of yesteryear. The correct understanding of race is the marker.

Now, let’s have a little refresher course.  When and where was the term “conservative” coined? Let me all remind you psuedo conservatives that the term originated in France in reaction to the French Revolution. The French Revolution was about destroying the Ancien Regime; i.e. The Old Order. The Term “Conservative” then is about Conserving the Old Order.

Fr. Seraphim Rose is an Old Calendar Orthodox Christian. He wrote a book entitled Nihilism, The Root of Revolution in the Modern Age.  Let me quote a few choice statements:
“The first and most obvious idem in the program of Nihilism is the destruction of the Old Order.” pg 75

“Effective war against God and His Truth requires the destruction of EVERY ELEMENT of this Old Order, it is here that the peculiarly Nihilist ‘virtue’ of violence comes into play”. ibid

Under the section heading “Making a New Earth” is this:
“Realists everywhere envisage a totally “new order”, built entirely by men “liberated” from the yoke of God and upon the ruins of an Old Order WHOSE FOUNDATION WAS DIVINE.” (emphasis added, pg 78

Now, we read from one of “I am not Spartacus“‘s links, from a teaching of the Magesterium we have this:

33."a new model of the unity of the human race, which must ultimately inspire our solidarity.”

35. “new light on the identity”

Notice the word “new”. It is used consistently in the document. In Old Christian theology, The New Heaven and a New Earth is AFTER the second coming and is NOT on this present earth contaminated with the blood of innocent people.  The Church is NOT promoting, defending, conserving the Old Order that had a Divine Foundation but following the materialist exigesis of Judiasm.

This is the dividing line between Orthodoxy and Heresy. I stand foursquare on the Old Order which has a Divine Foundation, which Race is an element of.  You can see in this thread who is outed as a New Order person--the heretics and the heresy of the Catholic Church. Aren’t you glad that Nihilism is the basis of Catholic Social Doctrine!

Isn’t this wonderful!

The Church is promoting communism. Many people are observing that the Church is stabbing them in the Back. The Church is betraying nations.  How can God judge the Nations of the Earth (look it up in the Book of Revelations), when by the time of the Second Coming, His Church will have done away with them?  How can God judge the nations of the earth--when they are no more?

From the Second link that “I am not Spartacus” provides comes this lovely gem:
“19 The increased mobility of peoples demands more than ever an openness to others...”
This Church document praises, glorifies, migration, race-mixing, the loss of national cohesion.  This is what the Heretical Catholic Church is teaching. It IS stabbing Australia and America in the back by its support of non-European migration into these countries.

Let this not go unobserved.  Many young men are observing the Church stabbing its countries in the back, the Church is purposely undermining Europeans.  Many young Europeans seeing this----ARE LEAVING THE CHURCH, and turning to National Socialism for they see that the Church has abandoned them. The Church is alienating good men by following Jewish Bolshevism. This is the Christian Church? Why would any patriotic young man be for the Church when it is stabbing in the Back, when it is undermining, when it is betraying you? The Church is no longer the pillar of Truth---and not only is the church in full blown heresy, it is also driving many men into apostasy and into destructive ideologies that are patriotic.

How wonderful to find don Giussani in the USA! I can hardly believe my eyes to see his good face in this place. I have been looking for so long for someone or a group in the States that ‘does’ Catholicism as I know it here in Italy, in Europe. I’m American but have lived in Italy for twenty years and became a Catholic here. And I wish so much that fellow Catholics in America could have what I have found over here--I’m strongly tempted to say that it is a completely different experience. We in America are missing out on so much! I found “Taki’s Top Drawer” while doing a Google search on Cardinal Biffi. Every Wednesday night on the radio (Radio Maria) they carry one of his class lectures and they are priceless. And I wondered if they could be found in English. But I didn’t find anything...except I wound up here and that turned out to be just as good! Don Giussani is wonderful and well worth getting to know better--you did well to give him such an excellent introduction!

W. Lindsay Wheeler writes, inter alia:

“The dividing line between an orthodox Christian today and a heretic is the correct teaching of Race.  The dividing line between a true conservative today and a psuedo-conservative, a faux-conservative, a neo-con, is the correct understanding of Race.”

Like W. Lindsay Wheeler, I am an Orthodox Christian. Let it be asserted straight away that W. Lindsay Wheeler does not speak for me or for any other Orthodox Christian I know, and that he cites Father Seraphim Rose to support racialist positions that the late priest-monk never, ever affirmed, not even remotely. W. Lindsay Wheeler’s remarks about Roman Catholicism are most unhelpful, but then, so are M. Ryan’s remarks about Orthodoxy. Both need to be reminded, perhaps, that they will someday have to account for each and every one of these words, and for the proud, angry and spiteful spirit they express—not to me, certainly, nor to the readers of this board, but to the Lord Jesus Christ ...

I see Mr. Wheeler is on a roll again with his racialist and anti-Catholic obsessions.  European youth turning to National Socialism?  Jewish Bolshevism?  Has this guy just stepped out of a time warp?

Thank you, Catherine, for reminding us what my little essay was about:  a remarkable man with a remarkable influence, whose only message is the event of the Incarnation of the Word of God, the invitation to a personal encounter.

Compared with which all this huffing and puffing about Purity of Race is… well, so much clowning around.  Which soon becomes not so amusing after all.

Mr. Higdon, What destroyed Holy Mother Russia?  Do you know anything about “Studying errors”? Do you Mr. Higdon, know anything about Communism, once called International Socialism?  It was also famously called Jewish Bolshevism?  Do you Mr. Higdon?  What the Church is supposed to do, is to guide (shepard) the people thru error. And Mr. Higdon, where is error found?  In the extremes Mr. Higdon. Truth is found in the Golden Mean, where Virtue lies, where Apostolos Makrakis points out that the Trinity is the Golden Mean between Jewish strict monotheism and the pagan polytheism. Where in the book Intro to Philosophy, Jacques Maritain always places Aristotelian/Thomist true Catholic philosophy in the Golden Mean of the excess and the deficiency.  Does any Catholic out there understand the Golden Mean? Where Aristotle defines it as where the Extremes meet? or the middle ground between deficiency and excess? The Trinity is the Golden Mean. Jesus Christ is the Golden Mean; i.e. Fully God and Fully Man.
And since we are made in the image of God, do we not have soul and body?  The Golden Mean? Communism preaches universalism--the excess.  Libertarianism/Anarchy preaches indvidualism--deficiency. Race is the Golden Mean.  Good and Truth exist in the Golden Mean, Mr. Higdon. But there are no Catholics that understand this weighty subject.
So, Mr. Higdon, we see that the Catholic Church has adopted--the excess--universalism---an error.
Christianity also Mr. Higdon relies on the Natural Law.  Please point to a single reference in those two links of “I am not Spartacus” where the Natural Law is referred to.  The Natural Law is not universalism Mr. Higdon.  Catholic Theology rests on the Natural Law as well as the Divine Law.  Where is the Natural Law in this discussion?

Let me express the Natural Law Mr. Higdon.  “Man shall cleave to his Like”, “Birds of a feather Flock together”, and “Blood is thicker than water”.  Please Mr. Higdon, please dismantle “Birds of a Feather flock together”, observed in nature. Used by Socrates in Plato’s Republic in regards to the sociology of Man!  This is the Natural Law!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mr. Higdon.  Tell me where any of you take into consideration of the Natural Law?  NOWHWERE!  You are heretics. I suggest Mr. Higdon, you study up on communism and tell us all why it was called “International Socialism”.  Would you please.  Do your homework!

“The destruction of the Old Order, and the organization of the “new earth” are not the only items in the historical program of Nihilism; they are not, ...(but) they are the preparation for the work more significant and more ominous than either: the “TRANSFORMATION OF MAN”.(emphasis added)
Notice the word “new earth”.  Read the links from “I am not Spartacus”. Notice how many times the word “new” is used. Fr. Seraphim continues:
“This was the dream of the psuedo-Nietzcheans, Hitler and Mussolini, of a “HIGHER HUMANITY"...”
The creation of a higher humanity was also the purpose of Soviet Russia.  It was the goal of Jewish Bolshevism in Russia.  The New Soviet Man.

“In this regard we must make note also of the two World Wars, whose violence has helped to destroy forever the Old Order and the “""""old humanity, rooted in a stable and traditional society,""""" and has had a large role in producing the new uprooted humanity that Marxism idealizes. Nihilism, The Root of Revolution in the Modern Age, pg 81

Is an Old Humanity rooted in a traditional society advocated anywhere in the Catholic Social Documents noted above from “I am not Spartacus”?  NO.  Catholic social teaching on race is Marxist inspired.  What is Marxism? It is called for a purpose, International Socialism.  John Kiang, in his Book, One World published of all places the University of Notre Dame, openly acknowledges that Karl Marx wanted to do away with Nations! The purpose of Communism is to build universalism thru deracination!  What does De-racination do, Mr. Higdon?----in the words of Fr. Seraphim Rose---it produces a “new uprooted humanity”!  Fr. Seraphim continues:

“"We have already cited the most striking forms of Nihilist Vitalism, whose cumulative effect has been to uproot, disintegrate, and “mobilize” the individual, to substitute for his normal stablity and rootedness a senseless quest for power and movement, and to replace normal human feeling by a nervous excitability. ibid

I suppose having a whole bunch of de-racinated people is a good thing?  This is the good of humanity? Why has the Church signed onto this program? Why is the Church promoting, advocating, defending de-racination?  That is a good thing? That people are to be shorn of their roots? De-racination makes people rootless---and this is a good thing how? Why is the Church participating in Marxist idealism?

It is quite obvious, that no one here has the slightest clue.

Quote those verses from the book of Sirach--and see how fast one is banned on Catholic and Orthodox websites. One can’t speak the truth at Catholic or Orthodox forums.  I have been banned from five Catholic forums, and from three Orthodox. Can’t talk about race.  The whole Church is in heresy. We see now who is the true Christian and conservatives and which ones are the heretics and neo-cons.

FJ Sarto writes:
“...to lament the ugliness of caste discrimination...”
Does Mr. Sarto recognize that he is imitating Rousseau the Father of Socialism, the Father of Nationalism:
“had taken from Rousseau either at first, or at second or third hand, the doctrine that the General Will is sovereign and that man is free but everywhere in chains, equal but everywhere affronted by distinctions of CASTE” The Republican Tradition in Europe, pg 62.
Notice the word ‘caste’. What was Traditional European society?  Was it not the Caste system? Is not the Caste system part and parcel of the Old Order?  Is not the Caste system what Rousseau wanted to destroy? So, why is FJ Sarto copying Rouseau? Does this not show the nihilism in the operators and contributors of this site? Does not Traditional Indo-European societies always live in a caste system?

I thought that the Church stood for Tradition. Doesn’t it have Holy Tradition? But then deconstructs Tradition in society?  Is that not hypocritical? Was not Medieval Jerusalem seperated into ethnic enclaves; i.e. a Jewish quarter, a Latin quarter, a Muslim quarter and an Armenian quarter? Is this not traditional society?  So why is the Church undermining Tradition? Undermining Custom that is obedient to the Natural Law?
Old Humanity, traditional Indo-European societies always had caste!  That is the OLD Order!  Multiculturalism is Marxist.

Mr. Wheeler grants that Christ was fully God and fully man, and this is his one point of contact with Don Gius.  Let’s leave it at that.  If it is Mr. Wheeler’s idea of the Aristotelian mean (it is not mine), then racism is not the golden mean between humanism and individualism, both of which he assumes to be bad.  On this analogy, he should be looking for a humanistic individualism, or an individualistic humanism, not racism, which is a pretty confused idea anyway.

Of course strictly speaking the idea of Christ as some kind of mean between God and man is a good description of the heresy of Arius, which disrespects both God and man — as racism insults the individual person as well as our common humanity.

Let me Mr. Purcell work in a little more theology for you to give you a greater picture.
Baruch Levi wrote to Karl Marx, which are not well-known and are worth quoting :
“The Jewish people, as a whole, will be its own Messiah. Its domination on the world will be achieved by the union of the other human races, through the elimination of frontiers and of monarchies, which are the ramparts of “"""""particularism""""", and through the formation of a worldwide republic,...”cf. Revue de Paris, 35, 11, p.574
What is the great evil in this man’s eyes?  PARTICULARISM. This is what the American, French, Russian, and the aborted Spanish Revolution (or Civil war in Spain’s case) was all about.  Ending particularism.  This universalism is also akin to anti-clericalism.  Fascism and communism were anti-clerical.
Particularism is evil for progressives.  Nationalism destroyed particularism. In the French Revolution, the distinctiveness, culture, dialects, and semi-rule of the provinces were ended.
This is what the ancient Greeks called Synoecism.  Synoecism ended the seperation between the polis and the countryside (the demos).  Democracy rests on synoecism.  Synoecism destroys particularism.
This can be seen in the Masonic American statement of E Pluribus Unum. UNUM, get it?

But that is not the modality of God.  God works on Ex Uno plures.  The Trinity is Ex Uno plures.  The Son proceeds from the Father.  The Father is the Arche for both the Son and the Holy Spirit.

All of Creation exhibits this dictum Ex Uno----Plures. 

Out of ONE man---many nations. Ex Uno Plures.

What universalism does is regress man back into a Unum!  That is not the Will or Plan of God.  E pluribus Unum is a humanistic, masonic, man creation.  Ex Uno Plures---is what God does!  In the Creation, just like He did Adam, God created one Arche animal from which the species developed from!  Ex Uno Plures can be seen in Abraham.  From One Father---13 nations came out!  The Ishmaelites and the 12 tribes of the Israelites!  Ex Uno---plures.

This is the Natural Law. God Created Particularism. God has spoken--causa finita.

The Golden Mean is not a fancy but is a principle throughout nature! All of nature exhibits the Golden Mean.  Much of human activity such as drying hay, relies on the Golden Mean.  Left out too long, the Sun cooks out the nutrients in the hay. To short, and the hay is too wet, and it molds in the barn destroying it all.  Even making hay requires the Golden Mean. That goes for pottery, bread making, and mixing concrete. The Golden Mean is part and parcel of the Natural Law.

As the Trinity exhibits particularism---shouldn’t the Cosmos also exhibit particularism.  And what is the concommitmant of Particularism--Righteousness or dikaiosyne.  Now, what is the Greek word that is opposite of Synoceism?  διoικίσμoς or Dioikismos. The same root ‘di’ is in dikaiosyne.

All the cosmos exhibits Dioikismos and dikaiosyne.  Everything stays in its own spheres. A river stays in its bed. The stars maintain their position. The earth maintains its orbits.  What is the synonym of maintain--conserve. The demands of Righteousness means that ones stays within one’s boundaries. This is part and parcel of the Natural Law.

Fr. Seraphim Rose intimated that Old Humanity has a Divine foundation.  Old Humanity is part and parcel of the Natural Order.  Who created the Natural Order?  I think St. John said, all things were created thru the Logos, Didn’t he?  Wasn’t all things created thru Jesus Christ?  So the Natural Order was created by Jesus Christ?  Is not the belonging and volkenhass in races there because God the Father put it there?  Is that not part and parcel of the Natural Order?

If you assault the Natural Order---you assualt Jesus Christ.  Race is part and parcel of the Natural Order. You can’t abrogate the Natural Law. Is the position of the Catholic Church to undermine the Natural Order?

Is not America a Masonic creation? Did not Masonry play a large part in America’
s revolution? A lot of Masons say so!  So what is said about America?---that it is a melting Pot?  Is this not why the motto of America is the Masonic E pluribus Unum?  Out of many, ONE?  Is this not the plan and style of America---undoing the Natural Order, deconstructing Old Humanity, demolishing the Old Order?  Is not America called the Novus Ordo Secularum? There is a reason that America is called a Melting Pot and its motto is E plurbis Unum.

But this is not the Plan or Will of God. It is the plan and Will of Humanists, Marxists and the Levis of this world.

Mr. Wheeler has done an excellent job of sounding like Pobedonostsev, the court thinker of the Black Hundred movement which led the pogroms in late Tsarist Russia. The same State-worship which led certain Orthodox thinkers to enshrine the Byzantine emperor in a quasi-liturgical position, with authority over the Church, helped assuage the niggling concerns Nicholas II might have had that his country was about to collapse--and freeze in place irrational, immoral policies. Oops, I mentioned rationality, so for the likes of Seraphim Rose that puts me in league with Lucifer. (I learned about Seraphim Rose from a band of Tsarist monks with whom I was once trapped for a weekend; they showed a quite provocative film asserting that Rasputin was in fact a holy martyr, whose good name was ruined by Jewish propaganda.)
Western Christianity does not entirely suppress the incentive for social reform inspired by Gospel (and Hebrew prophetic) calls for justice. Certain popes may have overreacted to the French Revolution during the 19th century, as the Fathers of Vatican overreacted to the Nazis in Gaudium et Spes… but overall, if I had to choose between the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox attitudes toward political reform, individual rights, the dignity of the individual… well, the choice isn’t hard.

Now Mr. Wheeler will wheel out some non-contextual Old Testament quote to confute me. To which I respond with another “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” And here’s another: (1 Kings, 14.10):

“Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall.”

That has as much relevance to current concerns as anything Wheeler has had to say so far.

So, I ask you to please post any Document from the Magisterium which comes within a galactic distance of your nutball racist ideology.

I’ll begin my response by noting you could not post a single Document (say nothing about a single word) from the Magisterium favorable to your racist idolatry.

See what has happened is that the Roman Catholic (RC) Church has denied the Laity with any sort of responisibility for the Faith. The laity have NO place.

Balderdash. As the Father and head of the Domestic Church, I had the duty to transit the whole Faith to my children. And that’s just for starters.

Here, for example, is Vatican Two, on the Laity…

http://www.cin.org/v2laity.html

I could post many more Magisterial Documents, but, to you that you mean nothing. It is quite clear your uninformed antipathy is concretised. I might as well waste my time writing to a Monk on Mt. Athos.

As for The Magisterium ...

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm

Malachi Martin is your source for Catholic information? Yeah, he’s reliable..

http://angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=186962#186962

And I am supposed to have ‘blind obedience’ to the Church

Matthew 18:...And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

What I see on this website...

Your racial idolatry has blinded you to the truth. Repent and convert while there is still time.

I have been banned from five Catholic forums, and from three Orthodox.

Gee, I can’t imagine why. Perhaps it has something to do with your racial obsession/ racial idolatry?

“Kudos to those Catholics who defend the Magisterium’s opposition to racialism.”

Sid, like a good socialist hack you have perverted this discussion by suggesting that those opposed to the obliteration of their societies by mass foreign immigration are tainted by “racialism/racism” and not to be taken seriously. My argument is not that Europeans are better/worse than any other race, but rather that we should be allowed to decide the future of our societies and not have it decided for us by those who think they know better (ie the unholy alliance of big business and socialist-influenced politicians and church leaders).

The Scriptures teach in Genesis chapter 10, that man was living in nations/races.  In Chapter 11, those races started to coalesce into the Tower of Babel.  God Destroyed that.

And you think RACE explains what the tower of Babel was all about. That is a result of your racial idolatry being read back into Holy Writ (eisegesis).

The Babel Story is about men (like yourself) trying to make a name for themselves. The sin is about pride (and even a materialist attempt to save one’s own self from another deluge/judgment from God)not racial integration, miscegenation, or any other destructive ideology you want to impose upon Holy Writ.

You know, there ARE good reasons you can not find references about race in Holy Mother Church, The Ecumenical Councils, The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Papal Encyclicals, Universal Catechisms, etc.

Holy Mother Church does not obsesses about race in the idolatrous and malign way you do.

But, back to Holy Writ.

You have many other problems with your racist idolatry that you do not even begin to acknowledge. Here is just one.

After the Flood, who was it who survived?

Noe and his family.

In the selfsame day Noe, and Sem, and Cham, and Japheth, his sons: his wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, went into the ark

How does your racist idolatry account for that reality? Were THEY all separated by race? Where each of Noe’s son of a different race? Were each of his son’s wives of a different race? Was Noe’s wife of a different race? etc etc

You can not answer because no matter which way you answer you will have destroyed the foundation upon which your racist idolatry has been erected.

I find the quantity of response on Mr. Purcell’s rather convoluted “essai” - an “attempt” in its true sense - bewildering. And, a rather poor attempt at that…

After all the back and forth, Mr.Guenzel seems to hit the nail on the head with the following: “I’ve read Mr Purcell’s article twice now and I have no clue at all what he is talking about.  The contradictions come so fast and furious that it is impossible to judge what point he is trying to make. I think he is in favor of healing the tragic Greek Schism.  If so, I couldn’t agree more.  I think he is an admirer of Von Balthasar.  If so, he has fallen for the charms of one of the worst theological charlatans of modern times.I shouldn’t be surprised, however.  Convoluted thinking is the norm in many Catholic circles today.”

Actually, for me, I find most of Mr. Purcell’s attempts fall into the category of ‘stream of consciousness’ rather than clearly articulated thinking...the facebook attempt presents more evidence...in this case, his 24 year old daughter may be on this something…

Mr. Wheeler,

I have noticed that you quote a number of times a passage that says a man cleaves to his own but it appears to me that the previous passage indicates own as meaning man in general not a specific race.  In that man is not a bird I think we are all agreed. 

You speak of roots but what are the roots that we are supposed to adhere to when man has scattered himself across the globe and aren’t all our roots from Africa originally? 

What is the natural and intended state of man?  Is it differentiated like different breeds of dogs who have been bred to artificially accentuate one characteristic or is it one completely blended animal? 

How can a teaching that pre-dates Marx be Marxist?

I think everyone on this site is in agreement that forced integration is wrong as is the concept of a one world government.  The larger government becomes the more prone to corruption and unrepresentative it becomes.

One final parting thought.  The original Christians were Jews and in fact the rules needed to be changed to allow non-Jewish followers of Christ or none of us would be Christian, Catholics, protestant, Orthodox, or otherwise.

Dr. Makow (http://www.savethemales.ca/index.html) a psychologist writes on the scrouge of feminism along with many other things. With the current uni-sexism, he writes:
“Our identity is based on gender. An attack on gender is an attack on identity. We develop our identity in terms of our family roles as husbands and fathers, wives and mothers, sisters and brothers.”(From his article “The biggest mistake men make")
Unisexism destroys gender identity and harms people and it destroys the family.

Now, let us take that same quote but substitute the word Race:
“Our identity is based on race. An attack on race is an attack on identity. We develop our identity in terms of our ethnicity.”
Uni-racism is just as bad as Unisexism. Yet I can see that my detractors can not fathom what is going on. Who pushes Unisexism?  The Left.  Who pushes Uni-racism or deracination?  The Left.  It is all part of the SAME program.  You Catholics and your marxist social doctrines are destroying and harming people thru your deracination ideology.  What your Catholic Social Doctrine is, is Ideology--but not science, nor Wisdom.

“Racial idolatry”? I idolize race because I see it being deconstructed? See Socrates would say, use the same rules in each and every situation; the principle of Consistency which is one of the basis of true philosophy and logic.

What is another part of the Natural Order?  The Family.  Does not the Catholic Church defend the insitution of the Family rigoriously?  Yes. Is that Family idolatry?  NO. So why is the defending of ONE element within the Natural Order, called Race, become “Racial Idolatry”? You people are NOT consistent. The Church defending at all the attacks against the Natural Order which Race is part of. The Church and you psuedo-Catholic conservatives are participating in the agenda of Deconstructionism and in Nietzchean Transformation of Values. You are just plain hypocrites.

“The encounter with the beautiful can become the wound of the arrow that strikes the heart...

Finally. When I read this sentence it struck a chord that vibrated deep within my memory. Today I rediscovered the specific lyrics of that melodic memory.

It comes from Life of Christ by Fulton J. Sheen. It was his meditation about “The Seven Words of the Cross (p. 373)

<B>Like some fragrant trees which bathe in perfume the very axe which gashes them, the great Heart on the tree of Love poured out from its depths something less a cry than a prayer - the soft, sweet, low prayer of pardon and forgiveness:</I>

Father, forgive them; they do not know what they are doing. Luke 23:24I

Let me remind Mr. Nucci:
Matthew, Ch. 21.43
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.” There was a period of transfer, but as you can see Christianity is being built in another Nation/Race. The Greek word is “Ethni” translated as “Race”.

“Christianity was NOT born in an isolated and local cultural atmosphere nor was it born out the of the Mosaic and Prophetic Scriptures of the Hebrews,...pg 393

Jerry Dell Ehrlich’s Plato’s Gift to Christianity, The Gentile Preparation For and The Making of the Christian Faith

“In every case above, the Christian Church chose to follow the Plato and NOT Moses and the Prophets; and such chosen teachings of Plato are the very foundation and backbone of the Christian Faith”!  (pg 397) Christianity is a Greek/European Religion. As culture defines politics, culture also defines religion and Hellenism defined Christianity.

St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, said, “For where there is Christianity there cannot be Judiasm. For Christ is one, in whom every nation that believes, and every tongue confesses, is gathered unto God...all those have been blessed who were ordained to eternal life in Christ.”
And as you can see---the Races are drawn into Christ---not individuals. We are born into a physical Race and those nations are joined into Christ---not individuals. In the Orthodox Church, Saints are sometimes referred to by their race.  Race like gender doesn’t disappear in Heaven!  Somehow you people loss this point.  Gender and Race remain in Heaven!

+++++++++++++= begin quotes +++++++++

In the selfsame day Noe, and Sem, and Cham, and Japheth, his sons: his wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, went into the ark

How does your racist idolatry account for that reality? Were THEY all separated by race? Where each of Noe’s son of a different race? Were each of his son’s wives of a different race? Was Noe’s wife of a different race? etc etc

You can not answer because no matter which way you answer you will have destroyed the foundation upon which your racist idolatry has been erected.

++++++++++++++ end quotes ++++++++++

Mr. Wheeler. You can not respond and so you just move on to another, absurd, attempt and substitute race for sex in the ideas of a psychologist (who uses “gender” when he means sex).

I guess you think sex and race are synonyms?

Of course it makes no sense to do those substitutions, but, just for fun, I’ll play along. (I do appreciate race is your primary defining identity. Mine is Christian.)

I’ll substitute race for sex here…

And, in like manner, the men race also, leaving the natural use of the women race, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men race with men race, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.

There, Now that that absurdity is dispensed with, why don’t you please post a prayer from any Mass or Divine Liturgy which supports your racial idolatry.

Failing that post the words of any Early Church Father which supports your racial idolatry.

Failing that, post the lyrics of any hymn which supports your racial idolatry.

Failing that post any words from The Divine Office which supports your racial idolatry.

Failing that post the words of Jesus which supports your racial idolatry.

You can’t.

To support your racial idolatry you are unable to cite the New Testament, the words of Jesus, the words of any Ecumenical Council, the words of any Papal Encyclical, the words of any Early Church Father, the words of any Divine Liturgy, the words of any Mass, the words of the Divine Office, the words of any Hymn and yet you claim we are the heretics.

And you wonder why you have been banned from other sites.

And as you can see---the Races are drawn into Christ---not individuals.

Where you Baptised as a caucasian or as an individual?

BTW, here is St. Ignatius. Please show me where he rants about race....

+++++++++++++++ begin quotes +++++++++++

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans

Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honour, worthy of the highest happiness, worthy of praise, worthy of obtaining her every desire, worthy of being deemed holy, and which presides over love, is named from Christ, and from the Father, which I also salute in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father: to those who are united, both according to the flesh and spirit, to every one of His commandments; who are filled inseparably with the grace of God, and are purified from every strange taint, [I wish] abundance of happiness unblameably, in Jesus Christ our God.
Chapter 1. As a prisoner, I hope to see you.

Through prayer to God I have obtained the privilege of seeing your most worthy faces, and have even been granted more than I requested; for I hope as a prisoner in Christ Jesus to salute you, if indeed it be the will of God that I be thought worthy of attaining unto the end. For the beginning has been well ordered, if I may obtain grace to cling to my lot without hindrance unto the end. For I am afraid of your love, lest it should do me an injury. For it is easy for you to accomplish what you please; but it is difficult for me to attain to God, if you spare me.

Chapter 2. Do not save me from martyrdom.

For it is not my desire to act towards you as a man-pleaser, but as pleasing God, even as also you please Him. For neither shall I ever have such [another] opportunity of attaining to God; nor will you, if you shall now be silent, ever be entitled to the honour of a better work. For if you are silent concerning me, I shall become God’s; but if you show your love to my flesh, I shall again have to run my race. Pray, then, do not seek to confer any greater favour upon me than that I be sacrificed to God while the altar is still prepared; that, being gathered together in love, you may sing praise to the Father, through Christ Jesus, that God has deemed me, the bishop of Syria, worthy to be sent for from the east unto the west. It is good to set from the world unto God, that I may rise again to Him.

Chapter 3. Pray rather that I may attain to martyrdom.

You have never envied any one; you have taught others. Now I desire that those things may be confirmed [by your conduct], which in your instructions you enjoin [on others]. Only request in my behalf both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but [truly] will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. For if I be truly found [a Christian], I may also be called one, and be then deemed faithful, when I shall no longer appear to the world. Nothing visible is eternal. “For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.” For our God, Jesus Christ, now that He is with the Father, is all the more revealed [in His glory]. Christianity is not a thing of silence only, but also of [manifest] greatness.

Chapter 4. Allow me to fall a prey to the wild beasts.

I write to the Churches, and impress on them all, that I shall willingly die for God, unless you hinder me. I beseech of you not to show an unseasonable good-will towards me. Suffer me to become food for the wild beasts, through whose instrumentality it will be granted me to attain to God. I am the wheat of God, and let me be ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of Christ. Rather entice the wild beasts, that they may become my tomb, and may leave nothing of my body; so that when I have fallen asleep [in death], I may be no trouble to any one. Then shall I truly be a disciple of Christ, when the world shall not see so much as my body. Entreat Christ for me, that by these instruments I may be found a sacrifice [to God]. I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you. They were apostles; I am but a condemned man: they were free, while I am, even until now, a servant. But when I suffer, I shall be the freed-man of Jesus, and shall rise again emancipated in Him. And now, being a prisoner, I learn not to desire anything worldly or vain.

Chapter 5. I desire to die.

From Syria even unto Rome I fight with beasts, both by land and sea, both by night and day, being bound to ten leopards, I mean a band of soldiers, who, even when they receive benefits, show themselves all the worse. But I am the more instructed by their injuries [to act as a disciple of Christ]; “yet am I not thereby justified.” 1 Corinthians 4:4 May I enjoy the wild beasts that are prepared for me; and I pray they may be found eager to rush upon me, which also I will entice to devour me speedily, and not deal with me as with some, whom, out of fear, they have not touched. But if they be unwilling to assail me, I will compel them to do so. Pardon me [in this]: I know what is for my benefit. Now I begin to be a disciple. And let no one, of things visible or invisible, envy me that I should attain to Jesus Christ. Let fire and the cross; let the crowds of wild beasts; let tearings, breakings, and dislocations of bones; let cutting off of members; let shatterings of the whole body; and let all the dreadful torments of the devil come upon me: only let me attain to Jesus Christ.

Chapter 6. By death I shall attain true life.

All the pleasures of the world, and all the kingdoms of this earth, shall profit me nothing. It is better for me to die in behalf of Jesus Christ, than to reign over all the ends of the earth. “For what shall a man be profited, if he gain the whole world, but lose his own soul?” Him I seek, who died for us: Him I desire, who rose again for our sake. This is the gain which is laid up for me. Pardon me, brethren: do not hinder me from living, do not wish to keep me in a state of death; and while I desire to belong to God, do not give me over to the world. Suffer me to obtain pure light: when I have gone thither, I shall indeed be a man of God. Permit me to be an imitator of the passion of my God. If any one has Him within himself, let him consider what I desire, and let him have sympathy with me, as knowing how I am straitened.

Chapter 7. Reason of desiring to die.

The prince of this world would fain carry me away, and corrupt my disposition towards God. Let none of you, therefore, who are [in Rome] help him; rather be on my side, that is, on the side of God. Do not speak of Jesus Christ, and yet set your desires on the world. Let not envy find a dwelling-place among you; nor even should I, when present with you, exhort you to it, be persuaded to listen to me, but rather give credit to those things which I now write to you. For though I am alive while I write to you, yet I am eager to die. My love has been crucified, and there is no fire in me desiring to be fed; but there is within me a water that lives and speaks, saying to me inwardly, Come to the Father. I have no delight in corruptible food, nor in the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, the heavenly bread, the bread of life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; and I desire the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.

Chapter 8. Be favourable to me.

I no longer wish to live after the manner of men, and my desire shall be fulfilled if you consent. Be willing, then, that you also may have your desires fulfilled. I entreat you in this brief letter; give credit to me. Jesus Christ will reveal these things to you, [so that you shall know] that I speak truly. He is the mouth altogether free from falsehood, by which the Father has truly spoken. Pray for me, that I may attain [the object of my desire]. I have not written to you according to the flesh, but according to the will of God. If I shall suffer, you have wished [well] to me; but if I am rejected, you have hated me.

Chapter 9. Pray for the church in Syria.

Remember in your prayers the Church in Syria, which now has God for its shepherd, instead of me. Jesus Christ alone will oversee it, and your love [will also regard it]. But as for me, I am ashamed to be counted one of them; for indeed I am not worthy, as being the very last of them, and one born out of due time. 1 Corinthians 15:8-9 But I have obtained mercy to be somebody, if I shall attain to God. My spirit salutes you, and the love of the Churches that have received me in the name of Jesus Christ, and not as a mere passer-by. For even those Churches which were not near to me in the way, I mean according to the flesh, have gone before me, city by city, [to meet me.]

Chapter 10. Conclusion.

Now I write these things to you from Smyrna by the Ephesians, who are deservedly most happy. There is also with me, along with many others, Crocus, one dearly beloved by me. As to those who have gone before me from Syria to Rome for the glory of God, I believe that you are acquainted with them; to whom, [then,] make known that I am at hand. For they are all worthy, both of God and of you; and it is becoming that you should refresh them in all things. I have written these things unto you, on the day before the ninth of the Kalends of September (that is, on the twenty-third day of August). Fare well to the end, in the patience of Jesus Christ. Amen.

++++++++++ end quotes ++++++++++++++++=

Contemplating his death, the great Martyr had not one word to speak in support of your blasphemous racial idolatry.

Will that stop you?

Of course not. But I am finished with you.

Repent.

This thread is very illuminating on the mindset of Catholics.  A Catholic, Mr. Purcell and Mr. Ball advocated a position.  I challenged the Ethics and the philosophy behind that decision.

The only response---Magesterium and calling me “Race Crank” and “Racial Idolatry”. This is their reasoning. They can’t defend their position.  They can’t explain the position of the Magisterium.  I quote from the Bible---and immediately am labelled a “Protestant”. This is the mentality of Catholics.  Then they charge me with “personal Interpretation” when there is NO NO NO official position of the Church on this verses! The Church doesn’t even know they exist and I am a Protestant for saying---Look at the Discrepancy. 

These Catholics can not argue a point. They have lost their minds.  The Roman Catholic Church has turned its whole laity into mindless robots who can’t think, who can’t reason, who can’t think philosophically. There is a discrepancy between what Scripture says---there is NO official Church document referring to that Scripture--and all the Catholics come up with is Magesterium!

So when someone questions any Catholic on its stand on migration and Race, how the Catholic Church is undermining the racial integrity of nations----and one is immediately attacked as a Race Crank and a Racial Idolatry.  There is NO intelligence, No commonsense, No referencing to the Natural Law, there is No reasoning---is this what it means to be a Catholic?

In the 10th Century, the Roman Catholic Church changed Holy Tradition by demanding that all kneel on Sunday and secondly, forbid the laity from removing a bishop for malfeaseance or heresy.  These two customs of Holy Tradition are still maintained in the Orthodox Church.  What doing away with standing and forbidding the Laity any say-so, the Church has emasculated the Laity.  Furthermore, with this promulgation of the magesterium doctrine, the laity are further turned into mindless robots. But these actions, the Church has changed the culture of Latin Christianity and made the laity into servile mindless drones.

The responses on this thread to a question of ethics that is the major question of the day bespeaks of the deficiency of Catholic Thought, and Intelligence.

Not only has the Church de-balled, castrated the men of its congregations but it has also impeded the mental facilities of their men. Leon Podles wrote a fabulous book, The Church Impotent. Another needs to be written, The Church Incompetent, or the The Church Ingorant.

It is amazing the ignorance of Catholics of Holy Scriptures.

Before any person becomes a Christian, he is first born into a race and then into a gender. You have it quite backwards. While in the womb, the person is made, then the gender appears. Before any person is born, he is born as a member of a race and of a particular gender. The Christian Church can not change that. The Christian Religion does not abrogate the Natural Order, hence it doesn’t abrogate sex/gender, or race. You need to read Charles H. Cosgrove, “Did Paul Value Ethnicity”, in The Catholic Biblical Quarterly, 68,2006. pg 269

Why would the Catholic church attack a person’s racial identity? I have pointed out the psychological harm the loss of identity does to the human persona--and all Catholics want to do is poo-poo the evidence, use ad-homenim attacks, and continue on like nothing has happened. Psychologically harming people is good? It is clear that the Church doesn’t obey the Natural Order, neither does it care about science as well. The flippant attitude is really great.

You know Spartacus, I wouldn’t mind just being a Christian, but the Catholic Church is not worried about being just a Christian---It is busy telling other people what to do and is causing harm by PURPOSELY advocating the deconstruction of the racial integrity of a nation. The Church has crossed the line into the Natural Order---it is MY business and the business of the rest of us! What the Church is advocating is Unsound, against the Natural Order, against common sense, and against the Divine Law.

The 20th century is marked by two errors, International Socialism called communism which sought deracination and National Socialism which went in the opposite Direction in elevating race to an ultimate criteria. This is the problem; That (a), no one sees this, especially the Church. No where in the Church documents, no Magisterium document anywhere, addresses the Deracination ideology of Communism/International Socialism, so this proves that the Church is CLUELESS of the existence of this problem, and has NOT addressed it like it should have. The Church has condemned the stance of Fascism--but nowhere has it condemned Deracination of Communism!

Second, (b), The Church HAS adopted Communist Ideology. Proof?  Just look at the Magesterium documents provided by Spartacus above.  They are Communist ideology, Pure, Unadulterated, Communist ideology.

Third (c) What the Church is SUPPOSED TO BE doing is guiding the faithful between the errors. It is not doing that. Furthermore, there is No Church writing laying out the Natural Order and the Natural Law on this subject.

In all cases, this shows the total incompetency, failure of the Magesterium in this regard.  By adopting Communist ideology, promoting race-mixing, multiculturalism, miscegenation--The Church IS in heresy.  The whole basis of The Catholic Church social Justice is Communism. And let me remind you Catholics that Justice in the Septuagint---Which is the Christian bible PAR EXCELLENCE--Justice is translated from the Greek word “Dikaiosyne” “Righteousnes”

What the Church is acutally promoting is UNrighteousness, or injustice!  And this is another error of the Church. It has NO understanding of Dikaiosyne! It misconstrues Justice! Righteousness means “to stay within the boundaries”. What the Catholic Church is doing is encouraging the breaking of boundaries--and that is why its social justice on race is in great error!

Now, a lot of people call me Orthodox. Well in the Orthodox Church, as far as I can tell---they never use the Natural Law.  Words such as “Natural Law”, or “Natural Order” have NO place in Orthodox theology. As far as I can tell, they never use Natural Law or the Natural Order to define or teach on any subject.  Only Roman Catholicism does.

So if the Church defends rigorously one thing of the Natural Order, i.e. the Family----Why is the Church NOT defending the rest of the Natural Order?

If the Natural Law is immutable---why is the Church re-writing it?

Mr Sarto wrote:
“Western Christianity does not entirely suppress the incentive for social reform inspired by Gospel (and Hebrew prophetic) calls for justice.”
Justice is “Dikaiosyne” in the Septuagint--The Christian Bible. Modern social reform is about UNmaking the natural order from disbanding Monarchies, Aristocracy, caste, the institution of slavery and race. That is the meaning of social reform. That is NOT social reform but Deconstructionism!  Christianity is not about deconstructing the Natural Order.  “Social reform” is progressive and Leftist.  NOT Traditional Catholicism!  You have adopted wholeheartedly the Enlightenment which was Atheist and anti-Christian!

Take all the words “Freedom” in that Compedium of the Social Doctrine of the Church and replace it with “Liberte” the Masonic code word---and you get the French Revolution, the Enlightenment and all else! You’re progessive---not conservative. Social reform is about deconstructing the Old Order!  That is not conservative!

I don’t know where you Catholics come from, but before the French Revolution and the American Revolution, Catholicism was guided by ORDER and Authority!  Where is ORDER in that Compedium?  Nowhere but the word “freedom” is everywhere. Where is this “Order”?

What is the BIG BIG word in the Bible? (other than love) It is the word “Righteousness”. Matthew, quoted in the Compedium 6.33 they run the risk of neglecting the Kingdom of God and His righteousness” And his Righteousness.  What is Righteousness? Dikaiosyne. Dikaiosyne is derived from the work Dike, which in very ancient times meant Boundaries.  Righteousness also a Virtue. Righteousness or Justice, the word Dikaios is the theme of Socrates in Plato’s great book the Republic!  A person must stay within his boundaries!  Righteousness and Order go together! You can’t have Order without Righteousness!

What the Church is advocating (what was earlie