Mr Foy:
While everything you say hits home, lets not forget the complicity of the Arabs who have acted as enablers.
Item: Jordan, Egypt, Saudi arabia, The Emirates, all co-conspiraters, who have let this drag on and on, and only make a little noise to prevent their own regimes being threatened every 10 years or so.

How odd for a “consevative site” to depend on a communist group like “If Americans Knew”.
The truth is that Mr. Foy knows nothing.
He speaks of 56% of “Palestine” going to the Jews. He ignores the fact that in 1922 76% of Palestine was set aside as an exclusively Arab state. No Jews were allowed to live in TransJordan.

As for the “native claim”, the truth is that between 1880 and 1946, more Arabs than Jews migrated to Israel, the WEst Bank and Gaza. This does not even count the Circassians and Bosnians resettled there by the collapsing Ottoman Empire.

The right of return is a call for Israel to be destroyed by demographics. Does MR. Foy reject conquest or the concept of nation states. Does he want the US overrun by Mexicans under the same logic?
Or does he take onanistic joy at the death of Israel alone?

Where is the conservatism and American nationalism here?
I see only leftist assumption and Dhimmitude.

Nationalism is dead or dying. Wealth brings
about comfortability and comfortability brings
about weakness. I don’t know if anyone else
recognized the weakness inherent in the recent
bombing of lebabon. When the baby boomers are
gone, gone will be americas fake interest in
the region.
Reparations!

I don’t think that it is fair to say that Zionism is an intellectual cult like Marxism.  It is simply the Jewish form of nationalism.  Like other nationalisms it is hostile to other nations at best and dangerous to them at worst.  The problem with Israel as a nation is the moral, political and financial blank check which the US has given it.  Given the ability to draw on the resources of an almost all-powerful protecting empire, any other client state would have behaved as badly or worse.  Cutting off aid to Israel will not force it to behave well, but will allow for its bad behavior to be somewhat checked by the bad behavior of its neighbors.

This is what it all about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjh2_pmpNGU&feature=related

<<Does he want the US overrun by Mexicans...?>>

Just to inform you, as an “equal opportunity insulter”, I want America to be overrun by Mexicans.

I will continue with further posts, thank you.

<<When the baby boomers are
gone, gone will be americas fake interest in
the region.
Reparations!>>

Exactly.

Israel is as doomed as the White Race.

Neither bothered to reproduce.  It was too much of a burden on their parties, their drugs, their “fun time”.  And they want me to feel sorry for them?  NO!

I will be proud of my mestizo grandchildren -

Palabras de la Virgen!

<<This is what it all about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjh2_pmpNGU&feature=related >>

I maintain this guy is a few pulled-port sandwiches and a good conversation away from celebrating the Vetus Ordo next to me at my local parish.

He’s not part of the Revolution.  America is his enemy, for a reason.

Israel was founded by a bunch of Jewish racist national socialists.There whole goal has always been to steal as much as they could from the original inhabitents.The only just answer is full civil rights for all in Israel Palistine,the so called one state solution.The Palistinian people should also be given large reparations for the thefts and murders of the last 60 years.

Between 650,000 and one million Israeli Jews have left Israel and most aren’t coming back.They have gone back to Russia and Germany for example.Many other Israelis have 2 passports.I will endorse the Jewish state when Mr. Lewenberg endorses the Christian state which the Jewish antichristian hate groups like the ADL have helped destroy.

I am wondering:
How come ther are 1.9 billion christians in the world, and 1.4 billion Muslims in the world and only some 15 million jews.
How come judaism never multiplied like the others. Could it be that they have managed to piss off every people they have come across. Could it be that they never followed Moses and the Ten commandments?
How come? Lets look at their roots and find out what the hell is going on. Is there a second chance on this eart for civilizations that have destroyed themselves?

Patrick Foy makes a very good observation. America has recently invested great amounts of our own blood and treasure on the behalf of israel. Not only that, we’re losing our good name and influence because of the association. We haven’t gotten anything back in return.

It’s truly sad that America can’t seem to look after her own interests anymore. A first good step is to understand that the US is not beholden to israel, which should be obvious, but apparently isn’t for many so-called citizens. Kennan’s diagnosis about the influence of ‘ethnic lobbies’ in his days has not been heeded, and those have now metastasized to permit the events that Mr. Foy notes.

It’s tragic how people who look after the best interests of America (not israel) are harangued as anti-American. It’s not the first time that good republics rot from an infestation of parasites. I just pray that it won’t be too late for us to recover.

@ Mr Capp: the song says “let there be no distance amonst us”
I guess that throws you into a tail spin, especially since neither you nor any of your ancesters can produce a little human sentiment is music like this simple shopkeeper.

Ron Lewenberg is correct. This ongoing critique of Israel, while reasonable on paper, ignores physical reality in favor of abstraction.  The Arabs in Palestine are awful. They were awful before Israel existed and they will be awful if Israel ceases to be.  They seek the genocide of the Jews, a prelude to the genocide of us all.  They have nothing bad to say about Hitler, they have done nothing with their lands, and every offer for a reasonable peace is met with terror.  The Zionist are not my scene, but this “paleo"-whatever infatuation with abstract justice on behalf of the Palestinians while preaching realpolitik elsewhere is either a mendacity or Jew-hatred. 

Mr. Foy seems to shed more tears for the Iranian mullahs (see his other essays) than for the Swedish babes being gang raped in Malmo courtesy of these people.  The hatred of the neoconservatives has led some to lose reason and idealize the neocon’s bete noire.  The enemy of my enemy is my friends I guess - How adolescent.  “Total entitlement at the expense of others” is what Islam represents to the Jews and Christians of that region.  As a Catholic, I have no need to become an Israeli citizen, but I was not threatened with beheadings or kidnapping when I visited.  But of course, hating William Kristol is more important than being intellectually honest.

Sebastian wrote, “The Arabs in Palestine ...have nothing bad to say about Hitler...”

Neither does Patrick Foy.

No real Catholic can be for anything but a just peace in the middle east, wether one state or 2.Israel has been a disaster for middle east Christians.No real Christian can be for Iraeli racism and warmongering.

Not only are you correct, “Jack,” but yours is also the position of the Holy See,which so many American “buffet Catholics” like “Sebastien” like to ignore. He calls himself a “Catholic,” and yet he designates a whole people as being “awful,” forgetting that a huge number of them are his co-religionists--co-religionists that yeshiva students in Jerusalem SPIT ON almost every day.

This column was a perfect example of the paleocon double standard on Israel (and yes, the neocon double standard is just as bad).  If Mr. Foy were living in Israel, he’d be singing a different tune.  The honorable exception to all this is Paul Gottfried, who’s one of the few Western pundits anywhere on the political spectrum who manages to “get Israel right”.

The article, “Annapolis - a true Zionist victory” is online here: http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/sneh/entry/annapolis_a_true_zionist_victory

“The Palestinians remain there at sufferance, to be rewarded or punished, based on their behavior and as circumstances dictate.”

Well… no. The Palestinians are to be punished. Period. Until they leave – or are dead. In Israel, and among the American Likud, this savage ethic cleansing is euphemistically referred to as “transfer.”

As long as Israel’s intentions are underwritten by the United States, the ugly, inhuman process will continue.

@Mr. Foy

I think you’re a very good, interesting essayist, but I do think you’re way too much
focused on the whole Zionist thing. Surely, they play a part in many issues. But many other factors influence US foreign policy as well.

For starters, the bomb-Iran campaign was mainly a blog phenomenon---still is actually. Ultra-hawkish neoconnish chickenhawk teenage keyboardwarriors want to bomb Iran, because they fear Islam and they honestly, yet stupidly, think bombing Iran is the way to go.

It’s not just the US, you know. France’s Sarkozy --- and majority of the French people too, considering the latest PEW research --- can’t wait to join in the action too. And they don’t have an AIPAC over there.

Us Westerners, who silently go along with all the militarist madness, we’re a big part of the problem. We should outvote the idiots in charge in favour of normal people.

To Kirt
Your claim is incorrect:
“Like other nationalisms it is hostile to other nations at best and dangerous to them at worst.”

What you describe is akin to imperialism and not nationalism. True nationalism respects the rights of other nations.

Ian, I have to disagree with you.  The essence of nationalism is considering your own nation superior to others and from this arises the supposed justification for dominating them.  Of course, not all nations actively seek to dominate because most, thank God, lack the power to do so.  A non-dominant nation may become in practice less nationalistic simply for lack of opportunity to dominate.  Or, less frequently, it may turn completely inward and become a hermit kingdom.  This seems to be the brand of nationalism favored by at least some American paleos - God forbid that they should ever come in contact with one of those filthy inferior foreigners.

Simply loving your own country because it is yours without making any particular claims for it used to be called patriotism.  Unhappily the nationalists have largely hijacked that term.  Here in Texas your “patriotism” is largely measured by how many “ragheads” you advocate killing.

If a private religious organization wants to carve out a country somewhere, regardless of who may be occupying the land, all the power to them if they succeed. But what does any of it have to do with the American taxpayer? What does it have to do with American interests? Most of the pro-Israel arguments here assume that the United States is somehow obligated to Israel and that any criticism of this opinion is akin to loving Hitler.

Patric Foy should also stress the attenuating circumstances in our participation to the Palestinian enslavement.
We, ourselves, haven’t been a free country, for perhaps almost,as long as the Palestinian ‘Naqba’.
A Russian Israeli ,who deserted the country since, made once a most interesting statement. He said that everybody there was giving explanation of the events strictly in terms of “we only do what Americans tell us” ( pretty much Chomsky’s thesis).
Of course,if you substitute “Americans” with ‘American Jews’, Israelis claim is right on the money (and literally).
When Sharon, Golda Meier etc or any other Israeli chieftains comes to the U.S., they come to receive instructions from their Headquarter, not the other way around.
We are just as subjugated as the Palestinians, the difference being we are not being blokaded and ‘selectively assasinated’ from helicopters. Not yet.
As Charly Reese said, Palestinians will be liberated when we become liberated.

@John Ball
It never ceases to amaze me how you manage to bring Adolf Hitler into a discussion that has nothing to do with that man.
I understand that you, being proud of your Jewish heritage, hold that tyrant in special contempt. However, you are out of line if you demand that everybody has to precede any commentary with a disavowment of Adolf Hitler!
It has no relevancy to Patrick Foy’s article about Israel’s failings towards the non-Jewish population of Palestine and America’s ill advised support of that policy.

Allen is correct that the Arab states and Iran are as complicit in the problems of Israel as is the U.S. and the protagonists themselves. When there are problems at home, deflect attention without........

Like all industrious clans, the Mormons, the Boers, the returning Jews of the diaspora to Zion, they only become a larger issue when their industry bears fruit. Force of numbers and technological-economic advantage insures that the “Americans” won out over the “native Americans”. I think it was an Assiniboine Chief who said it best after returning from a trip to see the Great White Father President Jackson:
“We will not fight the White Man anymore, there are too many of them for us to kill them all”.

One wonders if the Creative Destructionists have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams by overturning the rock of the Levant and adding Arab against Persian against other Arab war to the Israeli against Palestinian conflict. In Arms and Security We Trust. Let us count our filthy lucre in our villa @ Provence after complaining about French Capitualists.

Wasn’t there a Bill Mauldin cartoon in WWII, showing a GI standing in the middle of a devastated landscape and remarking “we won”....?

Time and birth rates have a way of settling things regardless of what may be right or just or desired.

Speaking of “a popular intellectual cult, like Marxism before it, Zionism has now arrived at an impasse due to its inherent contradictions”, how about including “International Law” which may prove to be the most persistent Fabian delusion of all.  At least the bushes have destroyed their own best camouflage - the UN.  I hope President Paul returns bolton as ambassador. Talk about win-win.  wofowitz at the world bank would be nice, too.

“Sebastian wrote, “The Arabs in Palestine ...have nothing bad to say about Hitler...”

Neither does Patrick Foy. “

Is this the same hysterical Ball who promised not to visit this site again after his rant against Jared Taylor?

They seek the genocide of the Jews, a prelude to the genocide of us all.

Yeah. I’m real scared of that. Here in Northern California I’m sure that the massacre of us all by Palestinians is right around the corner.

For starters, the bomb-Iran campaign was mainly a blog phenomenon---still is actually.

I didn’t know the Vice President of the United States had a blog.

If a private religious organization wants to carve out a country somewhere, regardless of who may be occupying the land, all the power to them if they succeed. But what does any of it have to do with the American taxpayer? What does it have to do with American interests?

Correct.

I see nothing in the United States Constitution, which is secular, which would justify favoring one foreign nation over another based on the religion practiced by the majority of its inhabitants. I also, as a Christian, see no particular reason to favor one group of people who do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior over another.

Thank you Werner. Reductio ad Hitler is tiresome. Your other perceptions are equally sharp. Americans bear no responsibility for European shortcomings and should not base policy of them. People who cannot leave their ancestral hatreds behind are welcome to leave and it is a joy whenever one does.

Does anyone else think that, if it is not too difficult, that it would be a good idea to place the poster’s name at the top of the post rather than the bottom, making it convenient to skip some droolings? If it is possible, please, Mr. Webmaster, get on the ball.

Here is the bottom line, and forgive my directness:
1 billon Moslems, 400 million Arabs, lots of land, lots of oil, lots of people, lots of resources if they WANTED to help their ‘brethren’ Palestinians.  26 or 27 Arab states, a whole bunch more Moslem states.

6 million Jews in little Israel [1 or 2 % of territory of the ME, I think].  the only Jewish state - and it has so far won all the wars [or maybe tied one or two].

wouldn’t you be jealous/envious?

the Arabs [or certainly Pal’s] can’t agree to a reasonable settlement because, knowing they have all that Arab/Moslem public opinion out there, they don’t particularly feel a need to, and know that, in any event, they can rile up the masses by holding a few demonstrations and getting a few of their people shot, so the world - including the writer of this article and many of the posters - can say ‘poor Pal’s’, and put pressure on Israel.

unfortunately, this is the way it is, and Israel sees its maneuvering room as very limited.  one war lost, and it’s over.

in this regard, let’s be honest: anyone - including Arabs - who doesn’t see the logic of the return of the Jewish people to their ancestral homeland [at a time when every one and his cousin has their own country] is being intellectually dishonest.  You may not like what Israel has done with its time there, but 3k yrs. of history speaks for itself.  Please.  [So Arafat denying the existence of the ancient temple really was a boost to Israeli confidence in him - sure]. 

the problem is that, as noted above, the balance of resources is so uneven that it is not sure ‘right’ will necessarily prevail, but each side feels so strongly about its position that no one will do the ultimate budging necessary to establish some calm.

and that’s why they call it the ME.

thank you, and Happy New Year.

I dont get it, Christianity began in Palestine and the oldest Christian churches are in Palestine, Christians have lived there since the days of Jesus.

Seems like a big sacrifice for just
one shitty little country.
The warranty is just about to expire, too.

There are gay pride parades in Ersatz Israel.

The Mohammedan’s fight against Ersatz Israel is not against the
Rabbinism of a small, but growing, percentage of the population,
but against the bulwark of The Revolution that Ersatz Israel is.

The Western/European/Catholic/Christian conservative is against
both Ersazt Israel and Mohammedanism, but for different reasons.

Ersazt Israel is Revolutionary, whereas Mohammedanism is heretical.

Some “Christian” conservatives have decided to ally themselves with
Ersazt Israel against the Mohammedans.  Some have decided to ally
themselves with the Mohammedans against The Revolution and Ersazt
Israel.  There are even some non-Revolutionary Rabbinists that
ally themselves with the Mohammedans to fight the Revolution of
Ersazt Israel.

Mr. Capp,

Do you mean “Eretz Israel” - or are you being… ironic?

It was supposed to be “ersatz” not “ersazt”, a German word meaning “substitute”, and in the English it implies something of inferior quality; that is “Ersatz Israel” is an inferior substitute for the “real” Israel.

On one side all those “awful” Palestinians. Outbreeding the poor Jews and threatening to kill them all, and us too. With their… WMDs I suppose? But we needn’t worry, like Golda Meir said, these people don’t exist. They are just daggers of the mind.

On the other side, the “Children of the Devil”. The same Devil, who in turn always was regarded as the “Father of all lies”. A people so hateful and deformed that according to some of their priests an Arab isn’t worth the fingernail of one Jew. And they also claim that Jesus is down in Hell, boiling in excrement. Or was it in sperm? I forgot which.

There’s a third side too. The Land of Useful Idiots. Paying for it all and allowing it to happen. This land has just two political parties to speak of. One of them has as its symbol the animal that should never be in a porcelaine shop, the other uses the international symbol for stubborness and stupidity. Now it is becoming clearer why it is the Land of Useful Idiots.

Without financing and support from The Land of Useful Idiots, the nazis that go by the name of Zionists would be just another mad dog barking at the Moon. Useless, worthless, hateful, but mostly harmless.

Your mission Jim, should you accept it, is to stop the flow of billions of dollars from The Land of Useful Idiots to the nazis that call themselfes Zionists and their evil will, if not stop, at least lessen substantially.

Also Jim, you should ask those nazis how come so few of them want to live in the Promised Land, now that they got one?

@Mr.Capp,

Then there are those like me who are against
ANY fascist/racist theocracy no matter what
the ersatz theology may be.

To complete somewhat Craig Senna’s picture of the ‘only Democracy in the Middle East’, I would add the following.
‘Purim’ is a holy day the Jews celebrate their extermination of some eighty thousand men women and children,their enemies, more than two thousnd years ago.
Part of the Purim ritual consists of spitting on the face of Christians,whereever they can be found -especially priests -on that day.
Why don’t the ‘chosen ones’ on this thread, discuss this aspect of their culture?

@ Peter RV
In the U.S. the Zionists control the white house, congress, the d of d, the media, and Hollywood. Anybody who dares to say anything is called anti-semitic, libelled, slandered, fired and hounded for life.
To me that looks like we like someone to spit in our faces everyday of the year.

“If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce, in all sincerity, to every corner of the world, that America’s global interventions have come to an end, and inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the USA but now—oddly enough—a foreign country.  would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to the victims. There would be more than enough money.  One year’s military budget of 330 billion dollars is equal to more than $18,000 an hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born.  That’s what I’d do on my first three days in the White House.  On the fourth day, I’d be assassinated.” --William Blum, author of “Killing Hope:  U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II,” and “Rogue State:  A Guide to the World’s Only Superpower”

The reference to Annapolis-A True Zionist Victory has been removed from the Jerusalem Post.  It cannot be reached through Google’s cache either.

Is there any other source for this?

This is a deeply superficial comparison, so to speak : “As a popular intellectual cult, like Marxism before it, Zionism has now arrived at an impasse due to its inherent contradictions.”

United States of Isreal

There is only one possible resolution to this mess, which threatens the entire world with nuclear annihilation. The 19th Century European colonialist adventure that sent paranoid and bigoted Jews to a profoundly inappropriate place must be terminated - with prejudice if necessary. See http://one-state.net for more.

Best BS I have read!
Reality is that This Christain CRUSADE on MULSIMS and ARABS and zionst are being used as FRONTAGE!

The eyes of Andrew Capp’s namesake are never seen: a very fitting
nom de plum, I’d dare say. The term Mohammedan is very offensive
to Muslims, and if your use of it was intentional, please sail back
to your hole in the ground.
Islam (submission to God) is the religion of Moses, Jesus and
Mohammed regardless of what your man-made religious institutions
accept or deny.
Jesus will return to Damascus and will head a Muslim army (of the
South) against the Northern army of the Beast (ZioNATO).
Most Jews, Christians and many Muslims will discover too late that
they are fighting on the wrong side.
Redshia, South Africa
tha

@ Ma-Cia-No
No French, beside Sarko the gnome has any desire to bomb Iran...This is simply untrue.

In a few short years, the current US regime has destroyed the Bill of Rights, the separation of powers, the Geneva Conventions, and the remains of America’s moral reputation along with the infrastructures of two Muslim countries and countless thousands of Islamic civilians. Plans have been prepared, and forces moved into place, for an attack on a third Islamic country, Iran, and perhaps Syria and Hezbollah in Lebanon as well…
American Friends, when will yo wake up from this nightmare?

@Blue Nomad

I’m afraid not. Check PEW http://tinyurl.com/36hx4v (PDF, page 69 bottom)

France (48%), UK (37%), Germany (38%), Though not majorities (yet), large minorities see Iran as a very big threat. John Bolton was thrilled because of Sarko’s change of heart, that’s what I remember.

Maybe the French didn’t put up 3 cheers, but 2 cheers? Most definately.

I find all of your comments extremely interesting.

When the United States stops supporting Israel, which it will do in the not too distant future, and the Muslim countries obtain nuclear weapons, which is inevitable (if they haven’t already) the failed state of Israel will cease to exist.

Then all of the pros and cons about the failed state of Israel will become meaningless.

I’m neither happy nor unhappy about that fact.  I’m just stating the Truth.

page 69 = page 70

Israel is basically unstable given the fact that many of its citizens can freely travel/live in the West. That means that unless Jewish Israelis have the same (or better) standards of living and privileges than they can enjoy in the West, they will leave Israel. In a region of the World where the average annual income is maybe around $10,000, Jewish Israelis must have 3 or 4 times this income or they won’t stay in Israel. This bonus has come thanks to “aid” from the USA or reparations from Germany. So, Israel is a supported colony; and how long does one think that will last. Israel can only last as long as Jews will live in Israel regardless of the sacrifice. Israel may have made the “desert bloom” but only because it was an artificial hothouse environment.

falastin IS for the falastinis homes.

brilliant article mr foy...it’s amusing to me when one considers the “facts"… present day so-called jews in israel are not of abrahamic blood whatsoever (they themselves admit to 96% being kazar jews [see arthur koestler’s “the thirteenth tribe”...a new york times best seller])...present day israelis are inter-lopers with a gangster mentality which has created a pestilence for the palestinian peoples (who are valid ishmaelites)...of course all of these facts have been ignored by the ruinous governments of the united states for the last sixty years, beginning with the recognition of israel by harry solomon truman, that closet zionist...where does all of this leave the united states?...in the odoriforous outhouse of our own making...thank you very much for your forum mr foy and may YHWH our god watch your back…

To the author:

to get the article, go to http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://jpost.com
It will not be available for a few more months. By which time, you will not need it of course. Anyway!!…

For me one of the key points here, mentioned in many of the comments above, involves US (amongst others) seemingly unconditional support for this tiny state in the ME. After sixty years, it should grow up and not depend on handouts from Big Daddies and Mommies and certainly not be so strident and desperate all the time.

Echoing what Roger Tucker said above: leaving aside all arguments as to whether or not Israel has the ‘right to exist’ in those particular territories (Madagascar was a better option, frankly, in logistical terms if not religio-mythic), the fact is that they chose to go in with aggression, they chose immediately to break the terms using terror tactics against both the British and natives, and contrary to the myths that appear even in the above comments, they have not won all the wars simply because they have never fought them alone as they say: they have always had MASSIVE support from their enabling parents and providers.

If you are going to take 5 million into a neighbourhood of over 1 billion and you willfully decide to do so by pushing out the natives in your patch, leaving aside all ‘realpolitik’ arguments about this approach, the fact is that you will not make friends in that neighbourhood and even if you are successful with the genocide on your turf (and leaving aside the ‘blood on the walls’ energy in your culture that this transmits), you will remain a pariah in that neighbourhood for generations to come.

Israel had a historic opportunity after 3,000 years in diaspora to establish a homeland. But she chose to do it by force, with support not from the regional cultural diaspora (Arabs etc.) but from foreign Powers who to this day support her far too much because of which she is a dependent false - and therefore failed - nation.

After WW II the Zionist leaders should have spent more time negotiating a reasonable way to import 3+ million into the area with the cooperation and approval of the nations in the region when done under the aegis of the UN or the UN should not have backed the entire project since it violates its founding principles. The whole thing now is a sorry mess, sad to say. For all involved.

Lastly, Jewish lobbying networks in the US should be dismantled and rooted out. Lobbying has its place in modern democracies (unfortunately) but those representing Foreign Powers should be made illegal. Immediately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkUjvM7UgiM

Watch this Video to see the nut bags @ Annapolis.... Only sane Voice was the Neuri Carta… the rest need a rubber room

If that canny Iranian was right in predicting that Israel (as we know it) would be wiped off the map, just as Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia, and more than a few other ‘states’ in recent years have been wiped from our maps… it may not be a bad thing. I kinda like what that Libyan fellow had to say about a one state solution too. To me Israel as it exists is an affront to humanity and modern values and against the better interests of Jewish people worldwide. All people in that region would be better off – save for perhaps the zealots and profiteers.
Frankly I am coming to the conclusion that human rights are more important than all the religions and even so-called democracy. Pray for what ever god you want or don’t pray. I don’t care. Just show some respect to your associate humans.
Thank you and goodnight.MarkD

Sneh’s article in the blog section of the Jerusalem Post has not been deleted from the website.  It is available in full at
http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/sneh/entry/annapolis_a_true_zionist_victory

***
The Weekly Portion: Annapolis - a true Zionist victory
Posted by MK Ephraim Sneh
Comments: 0
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The Annapolis conference is the most important political event of the year 2007. It was a success despite the doubts, the ridicules, and the attempts of those who are opposed to peace to derail it. Thanks to the security establishment’s operations, no terror organization succeeded in carying out any significant planned attack.

The conference succeeded in three areas:

It was launched with a joint Israeli-Palestinian declaration. Even though the declaration had no guidelines for a permanent agreement, it did firmly commit both sides to open in serious negotiations.

The Arab world, including Saudi Arabia and even Syria, sent senior officials to the meeting, which conveys regional support of a peace agreement with Israel and general support for [Palestinian Authority President] Mahmoud Abbas.

The conference’s end officially launched negotiations for a permanent status agreement. A date was set for commencement (December 2007) with a target date for completion thirteen months later. Ambitious but not impossible.

What is required for successful negotiations? More than anything else - political courage. The courage to agree on two issues when each side finds it difficult to accept one of them, and where both sides have difficulty accepting the third:

1. There will be no Palestinian ‘right of return within Israel’s borders

2. Jerusalem will be divided and will represent two capital cities

3. There will be an agreement based on religion - not politics - for religious areas of Jerusalem

It will be easier for the Israeli public to accept the concessions it needs to make if its leaders remind it of four truths it already knows:

The continuation of Israeli control over Jerusalem essentially means adding another 250,000 Palestinians to the State of Israel, where we oppose the ‘right of return’ for known reasons.

In reality, there is no unity between ‘Jewish’ Jerusalem and ‘Arab’ Jerusalem. We do not govern its neighborhoods, nor do we intend on developing them or providing them with proper services.

The Sharon-Netanyahu government had already divided Jerusalem in its decision to build the fence inside Jerusalem and not around the municipality’s borders. In doing so, the government had removed from the city’s domain thousands of dunams and approximately 50,000 Palestinians. The ‘unity’ principle has already been broken with the approval of all Right wing ministers.

When our ancestors and our ancestors’ ancestors prayed for Jerusalem in the Diaspora and said with religious conviction “To Zion, your country you will return mercifully”, they were not referring to Walaja, to Jebl Mukaber nor the refugee camp of Shuafat. There is no holy bond nor any Jewish historical significance to the Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem.

What is important to ensure in Jerusalem? We need to strengthen our grip on the holy sites, joining all surrounding Israeli neighborhoods to form the largest Jewish city in the world. We must also promote economic, cultural and administrative development of the city in order for it to become the Zionist capital of Israel, recognized the world over and a true success story from all possible angles.

The road to negotiations with the Palestinians will be long, windy and full of complications. However, any other path will just lead to another hundred years of war and one country for two nations.

Last week marked the 60th anniversary of the UN partition plan which sought to establish two nations in the land of Israel. I would like to mention my father, Moshe Sneh, zihrono li’vraha (May his memory be blessed) who in 1947 stood at the head of the political delegation in Europe which lead to the decision. This ruling gave 56% of the land to Israel and 44% to the Palestinians. When we complete the permanent agreement, we will hold 78% of the land while the Palestinians will control 22%.

After sixty years, seven wars and two intifadas, the upcoming agreement will be a true Zionist victory.
***

The biggest question is:

How many Israelis are Palestinians? I don’t mean how many Arabs are Palestinians. I mean how many people who call themselves Jews are Palestinians? Just like the Palestinian Christians. One of the most evil, deceptive ethnic stratagems of Israel is to refer to the Palestinians who are Israeli citizens as Arabs because, as Golda Meir in her infinite grandmotherly loving self categorically informed us, Palestinians never existed.

to isadora...said like a true, blue zionist...!

I will be proud of my mestizo grandchildren
Posted by Andrew Capp on Jan 02, 2008.

That’s like saying you’re proud you were able to build a go kart from the remains of your wrecked Benz.

There is only one reason Mexico is screwed up. Its full of Mexicans. Same can be said for Africa. And religious idiots like Capp applaud the crumbling of western civ because they are too frightened of those behind it and too cowardly to defend it. Period.

Until white people become immune to the words racist and anti-semite, nothing will change for the better, because the actions required to preserve the white race (which IS western civilization) will draw those attacks immediately.

Africa for Africans. Asia for Asians. White countries for everyone.

So, Mexican culture is not, nor can it even be, “Western”?

Then why is it, when I walk in La Suprema, a panaderia (bakery) in Atlanta, I am reminded of the bakeries I grew up with in Germany?  Why is it a good portion of the people attending the Vetus Ordo Mass at St Francis de Sales in Atlanta are Hispanic?  How can it be that there are wold-class “cowboys” from Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil?

Let me remind you, “Colonel House”, I am not an Anglo, I am no fan of Angloes (except, in a way, of Catholic Angloes), I don’t support The Revolution known as the USofA, I don’t support this Revolutionary “culture”, and if you want to keep the “races seperate”, I suggest you head back to Europe and fight the non-white immigration there.  Your “White race nationalism” just doesn’t work in “The New World”.  You support The Revolution, but only to the point of it destroying your culture.  When another culture arises to replace the one of which you supported the destruction, you then Revolt against it.  Why?  Because the coming culture is not Revolutionary, that is why.  You can not stand to see the Revolution fail, but it will fail, and a more traditional culture, one that includes, even if just in a shadow of what it used to be, the Catholic Church, will be installed in it’s place.

In the end, Tradition replaces Revolution.

How come judaism never multiplied like the others.

My friend, have you ever dated a Jewish girl?

If you guys wanna argue about what the Israelis do, and what the Zionists do, that’s one thing. But leave “the Jews” out of it. There is no central Judaistic authourity which designated Zionism as the central tenet of Judaism.

How is it at all possible to have “serious” negotiations and not
include Hamas, you remember them, the guys that won that democratic
election a while back?  Sneh tries to make the case that Annapolis
is not a sham by pointing out that “serious” negotiations would
follow.  I have to wonder what kind of fools does he think he is
talking to?  Is there anyone out there who actually believes good oldAbu
Massa, Mahmoud Abbas, has any significance beyond being seen as an
Israeli and American stooge by the Palestinian resistance groups.
This is a game.  There will be no peace because peace is not in the
Israelis’ interest as their powers-that-be see it. Peace would bring
and end to expropriation of Palestinian land, an end to Zionist
expansion, a loosening of their control of their own population.  If
Hams didn’t exist, Israel would create it. Well, uh, actually, they
did. As an antidote to Arafat.

to Mooser:

Well said, sir.  Israel is a “country.” It can be expected to behave like one.

If it wasn’t for the Zionist and Communist movement which is one of the same they are the creator of the Bolshevik revolution to over through the Caeser of Russia who abject to the creation of the State of Israel in Palestine we will not be in the mass we are in today.

This was a good article to bad too many idiots posted on here where to begin? first off, I don’t care what religion you are, it doesn’t frickin’ matter!I am not Catholic, Jewish ,Muslim, Hindu, Christian, or any other I haven’t read the Koran, but I have read the bible, it seems to me things get distorted when they are applied to politics.If you really think Jews are entitled to Israel because the bible says so and they were there first, then I’m sure that, as all is fair when all is fair, you would have no problem returning all of north America to its Native Aboriginals as well seeing as how they to were here first.Somehow though I dont think this will happen.hypocrisy hypocrisy.What was the bible said about Hypocrites...Oh yeah, “they will not inherit my kingdom!”

Why is it the worst troubled spots on the map were parts of the British Empire(Palestine, Pakistan, Iraq etc)? And why are they now all America’s problems?

Can’t really comment on Mr. Capp and his bizarre fixations with outmoded categories gleaned from a Wikipedia rejection.  His circular,begging-the-question pronouncements regarding revolution vs tradition, cannot approach the possibility that revolution could in fact be, a form of tradition.  The Catholic church will become what technique and technical forms allow it to be; so will the Mexican people.  True Catholicism couldn’t survive liberation theology, much less a global convergence of rational techniques.  Stop your humanist psycho-babble and actually look at what “Angloes” have actually “liberated.”

Ron Lewenberg,

Why put yourself in the ridiculous situation of insisting on this site being “conservative”. Is it supposed to toe some party line rather than speak the truth about Israel? Why insult decent conservatives who refuse to participate in such lies? Then you banter about the communist moniker just to illustrate your flippant use of this term as well. Further your “demographic” accusation appears racist. Destroyed? How? Because it won’t, after all, be an ethnic supremacist state? Finally, what sense is there to insisting on “conservatism” and “American nationalism” being static notions when the truth of matters is the real issue not simplistic partisan blabbering that must take a particular form.

Sebastian,

Don’t be silly. The critique of Israel is more than reasonable. It is overdue, all too tepid and in need of something more serious than mere words. By this I mean actual policy actions and actual concerted pressure on Israel to make peace (which means removing all the settlements at a minimum among other important factors). Your genocidal statements are infantile. The genocide is against the Palestinians in the form of cultural destruction. The numbers killed are low by genocidal standards but the destruction of a viable Palestine is easy enough to show by tracing Israel’s actions over the last 40 years.

John Ball,

What do you suppose is gained by saying something bad about Hitler? What was committed under the Nazi regime by this point in history speaks loud and clear. Better to focus on Israeli atrocities on their own terms than invoke Hitler.

Ploni Almoni,

When you state it was a perfect example of “paleocon double standard on Israel” but then do not explain how it is such ... you state nothing. Israeli’s might have everything reason to fear for their security. And they might feel that way as long as the people who lived their and their ancestors long to have their land back.

Ian,

Nationalism is the division of people. It is the creation of us and them. Somehow the us always comes first at the expense of them. Nationalism creates national conflicts. By definition. What makes nationalism “true” such that it respects the rights of other nations? (Actually, Kirt covered this but that’s my take.)

And so it goes ....

Patrick Foy did nothing more than state the obvious. There’s nothing controversial about it. This isn’t to denigrate the post but come on folks! Israel’s actions have been and are heinous and they have become so heinous precisely because of an national ideology called Zionism which demands a particular outcome at the expense of the people who lived on the land that the Zionist ideology regards as its own. Part of that ideology is tied to biblical myths and ancient claims held onto and insisted upon, as if holding these beliefs in itself constitutes the justification for wiping the Palestinians off the map. The ideology has lead to this. Why be surprised then when those living on the land are not at all willing to accept the intended consequences of this ideology?

Security threat? Sure. What did you expect?

Time to ram a peace treaty down their throats if that’s what it takes and a few select and influential nations in the world could accomplish this if they actually wanted to rather than using Israel, using the Palestinians for other geopolitical games as has been the case for decades now.

The term Mohammedan is very offensive to Muslims, and if your use of it was intentional, please sail back to your hole in the ground.

So what?  Is there a good reason for Mohammedans to find that term offensive--one that wouldn’t equally justify Lutherans in being offended by the term everyone uses to refer to them?

@ Brad Stroud

Infantile?  No.  I just take Hamas, Hezbollah, the late Arafat, the former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the Mullahs in Iran, et al. at their word.  I find it odd that on a website populated by so many putative Christians there is little acknowledgement of the fate of Christianity in Muslim lands.  From Constantinople to the Balkans, from Egypt and their Copts to present-day Iraq, the history is pretty clear.  But blinded by hatred for an obnoxious group of Jewish intellectuals in America, all blame is laid at Israel’s feet.  Why not blame the Crusaders for Muslim ire while you’re at it?  And being lectured on what a “real Catholic” is supposed to opine on a political issue!  Rich.

Sebastian no real Catholic would be such a zionist shill for a racist aparthied state as Israel.The Israeli policies of ethnic cleansing of Arabs both in Israel itself and in the territories is similar to what was done in South Africa. It also is similar to Hitler’s prewar policy in Germany of forcing Jews out of the country and Hitler wasn’t as brutal as the Israelis untill the war started.

To Charles:
“present day so-called jews in israel are not of abrahamic blood whatsoever (they themselves admit to 96% being kazar jews [see arthur koestler’s “the thirteenth tribe”...a new york times best seller])”

To my knowledge, there was never any direct evidence to support Koestler’s theory. It was merely an interesting idea that appears now to have been discredited by genetic testing. Such studies suggest that Ashkenazim have semitic Y chromosomes and european mitochondrial DNA. Hence, Ashkenazim may have derived from unions between semitic males and european females.

To Brad:
“Nationalism creates national conflicts. By definition. What makes nationalism “true” such that it respects the rights of other nations?”

If you bothered to research the origins of wars, you would find that a very large percentage of them derive from lust for territory, resources etc. (ie imperialism). You might also then come to understand how nationalism has often been exploited by rulers to justify/mask imperialism. As I have already mentioned, true nationalism must respect the rights of other nations to exist. Surprising that I have to justify nationalism (ie the force that created the nations we live in) on a conservative web site, presumably some of you yearn for the socialist utopia of world government.

*There is only one reason Mexico is screwed up. Its full of Mexicans.”

Now there’s a scoop!

Sorry, I failed to excerpt the real scoop: “Same can be said for Africa.”.

I’d have thought it was full of Africans.

Haha look at you people, so proud that you just figured out that America should stay out of the Middle East on behalf of Israel. Next second you start posting your “solutions” to the Israeli-Palestinian problem, which means, of course, that you can’t wait to get involved in the Middle East on behalf of Palestinians.

White people never learn…

Mr. Capp,

Your zeal to see nations disappear belongs on DU not a place where people care about culture. When your grandchildren hold you and your heritage in contempt, please email me.

Jack,
“Israel was founded by a bunch of Jewish racist national socialists”. Some were socialists. Others like follwers of the Mizrahi movement were religious nationalists, and finally there were followers of free market economics and anti-communist Revisionist Zionists.

“There whole goal has always been to steal as much as they could from the original inhabitents.”

No the whole idea was to recreate the state for the only original surviving inhabitants and to buy out the occupying Arabs. (Arabs invaded only in 638 CE)

“The only just answer is full civil rights for all in Israel Palistine,the so called one state solution.The Palistinian people should also be given large reparations for the thefts and murders of the last 60 years. “
There is a “PAlestinian” state set aside exclusively for Arabs on 3/4 of the “Palestine”. It is called Jordan.
As for the Arabs in Israel, those are full citizens, who actually own more land than Jews and get affirmative action.
The Arabs of the disputed territories, most decended from post 1890 colonists, including Muslim settlers from the Balkans and Caucuses had a higher standard of living in 1985 than any Arab outside of the Gulf States. Their poverty is caused by violence.
However, I’m all for buying them out with large monetary sums raised privately.

“Between 650,000 and one million Israeli Jews have left Israel and most aren’t coming back.They have gone back to Russia and Germany for example.Many other Israelis have 2 passports.”
I’m not usre where you get your figures.
Some refugees from communism did return to East Europe after communism fell.

“will endorse the Jewish state when Mr. Lewenberg endorses the Christian state which the Jewish antichristian hate groups like the ADL have helped destroy.”

Your a little late. I’ve supported a Christian America since 1998.

Allen:
“I am wondering:
How come ther are 1.9 billion christians in the world, and 1.4 billion Muslims in the world and only some 15 million jews.
How come judaism never multiplied like the others. Could it be that they have managed to piss off every people they have come across. Could it be that they never followed Moses and the Ten commandments?
“

Actually, the reason Judaism did not spread like other religions is because it is harder to practice and because with the singluar exception under the Hasmoneans, we never conquered and forced religion on others.”

Anti-Judaism is another reason. For the better part of recent history, conversion to Judaism in Europe and the Middle East was illegal.
Finally, there were instances of conversions. 2000 years ago, 1 in 10 Romans were Jewish. However the revolts caused by Roman colonization and anti-Jewish actions precipitated both mass murder and more serious anti-Jewihs legislation. Many of these Jews and especially gentile phil-Jews became Christians.

“No real Catholic can be for anything but a just peace in the middle east, wether one state or 2.Israel has been a disaster for middle east Christians.No real Christian can be for Iraeli racism and warmongering. “
Just for you seems to be no Israel.
I will admit that seeing dhimmi reclaim land in Israel provoked Muslims to view Chirstians as threats. However, the last 50 years have also seen not only decolonization but an end of European support and threats of violence on behalf of Middle Eastern Christians. The resurgence in traditional anti-Christian anti-Dhimmi behavior in Muslim countries is a natural consequense.

Digby:
“He calls himself a “Catholic,” and yet he designates a whole people as being “awful,” forgetting that a huge number of them are his co-religionists--co-religionists that yeshiva students in Jerusalem SPIT ON almost every day. “
Those Ultra-Orthodox Jews are not Israel. Most belong to anti-Zionist sects and are equally rude to other Jews.
Imagine if the Amish decided to try to enforce Amish customs on Harrisburg and idiots decided to blame all american Christians for this.

SF Curt
“Well… no. The Palestinians are to be punished. Period. Until they leave – or are dead. In Israel, and among the American Likud, this savage ethic cleansing is euphemistically referred to as “transfer.”

Transfer of JEws from Judea and Samaria as well as the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem is official US policy.

Ma Cia-no,
How would you prevent a nuclear Islamist Iran?
Or do you think that the Mullahs should have nukes to destroy the Great and Little Satans?

Robert,
I have never called for unwavering American financial aid. Neither have any other Zionist here, as far as I can tell.
Cite someone or drop the straw-man arguement.

Peter RV.
I here your pharmacist calling. Check your thorazine supply.

Constance Lurker:
I agree with you that Zionism is in trouble. No country can be liberal and survive. That includes the US.

“I see nothing in the United States Constitution, which is secular, which would justify favoring one foreign nation over another based on the religion practiced by the majority of its inhabitants. I also, as a Christian, see no particular reason to favor one group of people who do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior over another. “

We give more aid to Muslim countries than to Israel.

Mr. Capp,
Your theological anti-Zionism is no more a legitimate political position than some of the crazies who want Israel to further their Apocolyptic beliefs.

I certainly agree that Israel is far to liberal.

But where is the “revolution” of the Third Israeli Comminwealth?

Craig,

“On one side all those “awful” Palestinians. Outbreeding the poor Jews and threatening to kill them all, and us too. With their… WMDs I suppose? But we needn’t worry, like Golda Meir said, these people don’t exist. They are just daggers of the mind. “
No the problem is 1 Billion Muslims. And they have WMDS (Pakistan, Iran, Syria, and Egypt)

As for the NAZI bit, does callling ISraelis nazis help defer your anti-Semitism.

--------------------------------
I’ll finish answering the other posters later.
Ron

“There will be no Palestinian ‘right of return’ within Israel’s borders”?
On what ‘right’ did the Jews ‘return’ to their ‘father-land’?

Nobody has a ‘right’ to anything, Suzarin. We took the land & built Israel because we are stronger. Don’t like it? Who cares?

mizrahit: the only reasons Americans and Europeans should care is because they are being bilked for billions, spending money that should go to their own roads, schools and intelligent diplomacy. Inordinate politicking nourished by deep roots in the Western banking sector which has run amok and now threatens to tear down our society gives Israeli-Zionist-neocon-financial cabals the ability to punch far above their weight.

Their time will come. They have over-reached and once the damage they have done becomes clear enough in the form of collapse, then they will no longer be tolerated and, once again, thrown out of their host societies. Such is the fate of all rich, powerful elites who exploit the very people who provide them with their superior status.