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Entry: Liberalism Forbids An Awakening Link: http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/liberal_judgment_and_the_liberal_scale_of_values#29002 Post contents: A lot of good points are raised above. First, I do not mean necessarily to defend colonialism. Perhaps the world would have been better if colonialism had never happened. Not all colonization efforts were the same. Some were more interested in justice and sharing the fruits of European civilization than others. I think even if colonization by European powers had certain merits, it is both unnecessary and unwise for the United States today. By the 1960s, neither South Africa nor Rhodesia were colonies strictly speaking. They were independent nations with minority white-rule. The white people who had been born there, in my view, had just as much right to remain as anyone else, and, more important, had brought western technology, law, and structure to what had been very primitive and backwards lands. This civilizational superiority gave them certain political and moral rights, as did the simple fact that the whites were from there, as were their parents, as were their parents, etc. They're about as much "colonies" as the United States is today. It's notable that Rhodesia, South Africa, and Algeria-- all African lands with long established European populations--fought far more tenaciously against indigenous nationalist movements than other formal colonies. I think it's simply foolish to say Africa would have been anywhere near where it is today--which is still quite bad, but better than before--without European colonization. It's not a coincidence South Africa is the wealthiest nation in Africa, in spite of its troubles. European order, technology, and political structure should not be taken for granted as natural or easily accomplished achievments; the fact that these nations fell into decrepitude so quickly after the whites left is quite revealing. Three, it is possible something is initially unwise and immoral, including colonization itself, but it may still be unwise to precipitously abandon an immoral project once begun because that abandonment would lead to worse moral consequences than its continuation, at least for a transition period. In other words, the question of goals and the question of how to transition to a particular goal are two different matters. Finally, Old Atlantic, I don't agree with your eugenicist take, but I do agree that our civilization's accomplishments go beyond mere liberal ones. My point was simply that the standard litany of liberal achievments don't get stored up in an account somewhere to reduce our guilt, but instead, ironically enough, add to that guilt by showing how much farther "we have to go." Sent at: 2009 01 08