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Entry: Englishmen, and Other Aborigines Link: http://www.takimag.com/site/article/englishmen_and_other_aborigines#435 Post contents: J. Ball makes some points but I still stick to mine line. Some issues depend on the eye that watches it. All of us are subjective to some extent. For example that the Pilgrims where fanatics and for that reason they were expelled, or was it that they become fanatics when they start being persecuted? Probably a little bit of both, as so my statement is as valid as yours. I cannot claim copyright over the “(not) merry England straw man”. A certain G.K. Chesterton had something to say about it along time ago… Yes, going underground is not the same as obliteration. Those Catholics who spoke up were obliterated; the rest had to hide in the catacombs. The “traditional English liberties” did not apply to them. I have stressed this point before but J. Ball seems not to see it. Bringing up the Quakers is not adding to J. Ball cause. In fact the Quakers were persecuted in England and that was the reason the have to flee too. And they were not as fanatical as the Pilgrims, right? Quaker leaders were imprisoned in England for a long time their cult banned. The Quakers were persecuted in America too, but I cannot blame that on the C of E, the Puritans were behind it. That you have an official position does not make you less terrorist. Stalin was the boss and sent to die 9 millions Ukrainians. That is terrorism. Hitler was the boss and he sent do die millions of people. That is terrorism. Churchill destroyed Dresden. That is terrorism. Roosevelt-Truman destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That is terrorism. Attacks on civilian population to create terror are, well, terrorism. Cromwell terrorized civilian population (in Ireland for sure and other places in the British Islands), and as such he was a terrorist. That you are holding office is an aggravation rather than the other way. After Cromwell conquered Ireland, Catholicism was banned and Catholic priests were executed. Thousands of Irish people were murdered and sold into slavery. Catholic land was confiscated and given to foreign settlers. When later on he invaded Scotland he treated people there brutally too, especially in the Highlands. This is not just a semantic problem; in fact the world terror linked to politics comes from the Reign of Terror in France after the French revolution where the terror was exerted by the government against people. Now we associate a terrorist to a lone man fighting against the established government. This is not the only variety of terrorism, not even the worst. Yes, Cromwell was a terrorist. Regarding Queen Elizabeth reign over Catholics your opinion is rather news to me. Can you cite Catholic historians who back your position? And please don’t bring Charles II in place of Elizabeth! They may have been related by blood, but their actions were very different. Sent at: 2008 12 02