He also has mentioned that if Iran got the bomb then their neighbors would rush out and get their own creating more proliferation of nukes in the third world. Therefor we need to nuke them as an object lesson.

Seeing as their western border is Iraq and the US Army plus our Israeli allies, and the Eastern border is Afghanistan and the US army, the neighbors are way ahead on nukes.

The Taliban were a puppet of Pakistan which did have nukes and are Sunni and Saddam and his US allies had invaded Iran and killed hundred of thousands. Plus the USS Vincennes had sailed into Iran’s southern waters and shot down a civilian airliner killing among the 300 civilians on board, 70+ children. But the only good Moslem is a dead Moslem. Kids grow into adults so getting them young saves resources.

Khameni seems a model of wisdom and forbearance compared to Bush and neo-cons like Senor Roach.

Yes, but we’re a kinder gentler Banana Republic, Kompashunutley Kunservatev too.

I am reminded of Fidel’s reply to an American reporter questioning him after 9/11 and specifically whether or not they would ever refuse to allow Guanatanimo to operate it’s “Enemy Combatant” prison or undertake any military action against the current holding company of United Fruit:
“What? , thats very funny, we may be obstinate here but we’re not crazy”

Not sane enough to avoid new discussions of Russian Bomber patrols to Havana apparently but this seems par for the course for the new, neo-con inspired Neo Cold War. In Boo We Trust, a very third world approach.

With Israel bellowing at the missile launcher controls and the American Military Industrial Complex jagged on Steroids, one has to wonder whether the Mullahs are really as crazy as the babbling show-off currently running their country.
To be pragmatic, they’d be crazy NOT to defend themselves as best they can.....or at the very least, bluff like mad.

Like Cajones Albright said: “whats the use of having that big military if yer not going to use it”. Indeed.

Interesting and scary stuff.  But why the Spanish?  It’s “Mister” not “Senor.” Why use the language of the invader?

Chris, the “Senor” is a Buchananism: I just ripped it off…

As for “the invader”—hey, bud, we’re the invaders. Have you forgotten the Mexican-American War?

Justin, maybe you should join the National Council of La Raza if you want to embrace the justice of the Reconquista.  Or perhaps you can go to Oklahoma and buy an Indian some 100 proof whiskey as voluntary reparations if you want to move back the statute of limitations of things people can be pissed off about a few hundred years.

Speaking of forgetfulness, have you forgotten the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo and the subsequent Gadsen Purchase?  We bought the Southwest fair and square. They agreed and signed on the dotted line.  We even took over Mexico’s debts to its own citizens in the process.

PS Remember the Alamo.

One more thing, I think Pat does that to mock unpatriotic fifth columnists who believe we need open borders.  You know, people that are indifferent to their country becoming Mexicanified in the name of their revanchist Reconquista nonsense, as if America would be worth invading with the Third Worlders in charge.

Roach, si...Raimondo, no!  A sentiment which I’m confident Pat Buchanan would agree with in this instance.

Lewis Lapham had similar thoughts in his Notebook column in Harper’s a couple months ago entitled “Third World USA”.  Being a CFR member himself and an invitee to the World Economic Forum he also came to the conclusion that the American elite is indistinguishable from their towelhead and noveau Russe counterparts.

He also made the saliant observation that the girls are still pretty in Third World countries, many have good golf courses and quite efficient and discreet secret police.  Why didn’t the American oligarchy think of it earlier?

Obviously Mr. Raimondo knows his history. The Mexicans were the poor victims of evil U.S. imperialism! They didn’t want war.

Right…

But the real problem are those damn Canadians.  When are we going to seal the >>Northern<< border dammit.

El Lay makes a valid point.  Not only are 3rd world women still pretty--they don’t suffer from a divided puritan psyche (madonnah-whore) which plagues so many western women.  In short, western women are boring!

@ Justin

As for gringos being invaders in the Southwest, that’s a load of rubbish.  The only “Mexican” presence in the Southwest were the Spanish missions and some large ranches - most of it was empty or inhabited by non-Mexicanified Indians, i.e. they didn’t speak Spanish. 

Between the California Gold Rush and WWI, gringos came into the area and built railways, levee systems and irrigation to create farms and ranches which were predominately manned with white labor.  When white businessmen wanted to subject white labor to competition from other races to boost their profit margins, white labor rioted and TR got involved and made a “gentleman’s agreement” to keep California white.

In 1960, the population of California was 15.7 million with 92 percent being native-born white and almost all of the non-white poplulation was black.  Southern California went from being agricultural, to having oil and motion pictures and later the “defense industry”. 

Agriculture started the practice of importing Mexicans to work the fields during WWII when the white laborers were drafted to fight the war.  Mexican-"americans" already showed their colors then during the Zoot Suit Riots where Hispanics assaulted American GIs, a barber I had in Berkeley experienced it personally.  During this building spree in the state which has lasted over half a century, the business community has let anyone into the country to boost their profit margins.  Changing relatively homongenous agricultural settlements into polyglot graffiti-infested slums with extreme disparities in wealth is not justice, but wholesale betrayal by the business class here in California.

Uh, actually, the “Senor” wasn’t meant to have any racial connotations: just a lighthearted joke. But I guess “white nationalists” aren’t into humor.

Real Americans of every race believe in speaking English.  They also believe in keeping out illegal aliens. No need to embrace full bore “white nationalism” not to like these things.

Do “real Amurricans” have a sense of humor?

It’s Señor, not Senor.

Once again Raimondo carries the day!

As usual when your anti-American leftism and false factual premises are exposed, Justin, this does not lead you to recant your studipities.  Instead, you’ve changed the subject and pretended you didn’t utter your suggestion that the US invaded Mexico unjustly in 1845 (defending Texas mind you!) and that this also justifies mass illegal immigration today.  Read about the Thornton Affair sometime.  They attacked first.

I may be somewhat devoid of humor in this instance, but you and your anti-war bretheren are not exactly a barrel of laughs either.  At least I have enough honor to engage my critics forthrightly without resorting to the snide over-satisfied grou-think common in your part of the country, not exactly known for much else besides Bath Houses and liberals.

I’ve got to admit Raimondo is actually pretty funny, just not when he intends to be.

Roach, I don’t think you should try engaging him in a conversation about the Mexican-American War, as it wouldn’t be worth your time.  His knowledge of American history seems pretty much limited to “America bad, other guys, good”.

Good lord, how did a humorous aside turn into ... this? Amazing.

Mister Roach, I assume you’ll be volunteering for the Iran war, and so won’t have time for blogging: that is, if you don’t get a job with the Weekly Standard first. Rest assured, we’ll miss you....

As for the Mexican-American war: hey, what’s wrong with invading countries, conquering them, and annexing them to the United States? After all, that’s what you want to do to Iran—so why not Mexifornia?

The problem with invading countries, especially those with a high birth rate, is that the conquerors may soon turn out to be the conquered. How’s that for blowback?

Wow Roach, he managed to pull out all the standard accusations in one post:

1.  You’re a Chickenhawk
2.  You’re a Neo-con shill for the Weekly Standard
3.  You want to annex Iran
4.  Blowback! You and rest of America got it coming to you!

I guess we should be thankful he packed it into one post and saved us the reading time.

Readers, don’t forget that Raimondo is thoroughly immersed in the culture of San Francisco. There his use of ugly terms like “real Amurricans,” “white nationalism,” and “blowback” (is this a funny word in this context?) would be viewed as right of center, along with his views on Mexican revanchism and American evil. His remarks would pass unregarded on the streets of San Francisco as unexceptional commentary. My friends and I used to support his web site a lot, but we’ve had it with Raimondo’s rhetoric about hillbillies and rednecks in other postings—none of it’s funny, Justin.

What’s Mexican for Manifest Destiny?

Not to change the subject, but I’ve been referring to the United States as Argentina del Norte for at least a quarter-century.  It’s typical that a third-world nation exports raw materials and imports manufactured goods.  Also a third-world nation is typically in serious debt.  When did the US go from being the world’s biggest creditor to the world’s biggest debtor?  But Mr. Cheney has assured us that President Reagan proved that debts don’t matter.

@ Justin

Your original intent was that the American elite is just as venal and corrupt as the Third Worlders our leaders chastise, which I totally agree with.

I just don’t think it is a good idea to increase the stress on our society by letting people with different historical and cultural backgrounds to displace native communities as well as making us dependent upon foreign resources for our economic system to work.

If we did things right, we would have a self-sufficient America and two oceans and a desert to the south of us that would make our requirements for a massive military unnecessary.  Please, Justin, tell me that you think that would be a good idea.

My my...the Eugenics Department really got their chaps in a twist over this one.

I really liked the suggestion that Polk went to war against Mexico to “protect” po lil ole Texas. They have always been so retiring, so innocent, so..... humble. And...to add insult to injury for the Sons of the South retinue of the Whitey Is Mighty Crowd herein, chew on this: Grant always said the War of the Rebellion was won against the Confederacy as a result of artillery tactics learned by Union forces during the assault on Mexico. Win some and lose some I suppose.

lastly, @ Cognate: Mexican Manifest Destiny is a properly chopped and low riding 65 Impala with crossed chrome-plated Machetes welded to the front grill...I thought everybody knew that.

On second thought, I think El Jeffe de la Cabinetto Segreto Don Cheney and his merry band of mincing Boleroistas at the Weekly Standard are the very definition of Mexican Manifest Destiny. When they’re done giving the Mexican Judicial System Treatment to the lapsed Republic, we’ll be having Bull fights on the Mall and Argentina will be the economic paradigm we’re following.

It is heartening that when the nativists are on the warpath, we have the dumbest white men and woman in the history of the world in charge down at that dollar guzzling Estancia named Washington DC.. There will be no need whatsoever for any re-conquest my fellow paranoics, this government will deep six on it’s very own. I’ll fully embrace closed borders if we can close off Washington at the beltway too.

Can a Native American shed a little light on the Reconquista fraud? First, Spanish Mexico was a colonial construct just like those of England and France, and it wasn’t until 1821 that Mexico even became a soverign nation. For more than 250 years, the American Southwest was ruled totally by Comanche, Kiowa and Apache Indians. The Comanche had de facto ownership of northeastern Mexico clear to Monterrey for 150 years. Not only could the Mexicans not colonize Texas, New Mexico and Arizona, they couldn’t even defend central Mexico proper. Mexico allowed Anglo settlers into Texas to provide a buffer and counterforce to the Comanche and Kiowa, as well as the Comancheros. Reconquista is an utter sham. I recommend that you read my piece, “We Gave You Texas”, in Counterpunch magazine.

Does California belong to the Californians, or to Washington City and the Federal Government?

If you oppose Californian secession, you can’t help but oppose Southern secession.

Do you really want to go down that path?

As for California leaving the Union, consider Lincoln’s nightmare in the first half of the secessionist rumble.  California and Oregon were majority Democrat.  Brigham Young had a dream of the independent Mormon nation of Deseret, i.e. Utah, most of Nevada, Idaho, western Wyoming and Colorado, and maybe a bit of Arizona to go with southern California.  Had Britain decided to support the Confederacy seriously, the map of the US might have been modified in a fascinating way.  Remember that building the Pacific Railroad from Omaha to Sacramento in the ridiculous circumstances of the war was to be able to land a bluecoat army in Californis.  At least the Mexicans are trying it in a relatively peaceful manner.

Well, the reason for going into Iraq wasnt about nukes, as Roach believes, in the game of empire, specifically the Wolfowitz doctrine, any country with a large amount of recources [oil, in this case] could become a challenger to the US position as a sole super power.

Nukes dont create wealth, they are very expensive and hard to build thus they dont add to the economy of any country persuing them.

I doubt military coups would lead to nuclear proliferation as no coup would want their enemy to have nukes. Looking at nuclear proliferation we see no proliferation thru coups.

I would like to see Roach offer a prood that any coup has led to nuclear proliferation.

I am starting to think that the presence of Christopher Roach is an attempt to scare the libertarians off of this site.

“As for the Mexican-American war: hey, what’s wrong with invading countries, conquering them, and annexing them to the United States? “

Those who oppose Justin, I think you are misunderstanding his point.  Defending Texas when it legitimately wanted to join the Union (a mistake - but that’s a debate for another day) is not a carte blanche to simply steal 1/2 of Mexico. In my eyes, what is done is done - any further border changes would be against the will of most of those living there and just as wrong as taking it to begin with.

Why, the downfall of communism, which wasnt a coup, has probably led to more proliferation more than anything because the country was broke, soldiers went unpaid and secrets were sold.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/litvinenko-smuggled-nuclear-material-426266.html
There have long been concerns that turmoil in Russia and other former Soviet states after the fall of Communism created an international black market in radioactive substances

Jet, also, Mr Roach claims Iran is an unstable country, with a weak central state.  The problem is: if Iran has a weak central state, it is impossible for them to put together a program to build these incredibly expensive weapons.  If building nuclear weapons was as easy as he believes it to be, then the fabled “al Qaeda” would have used them, instead of jet airplanes.

Even North Korea is doubted to truly have nuclear weapons, not that anyone would really like to know for sure…

I am starting to think that the presence of Christopher Roach is an attempt to scare the libertarians off of this site.

I would say its to create controversy.

If building nuclear weapons was as easy as he believes it to be, then the fabled “al Qaeda” would have used them, instead of jet airplanes.

True. For all the whining about nuclear weapons and terror, we were attacked with nothing more than aluminum and jet fuel. Do I hear the fear mongers rallying against the proliferation of fuel?

Of course not.

Justin
Bad move trying to engage in rational debate with Mr Roach. He has never shown signs that he might have the mental flexibility to be able to change his view let alone admit that he might be wrong. Amusing to see Mr Roach’s ability to twist the above argument to appear an American patriot. In fact, he is not a nationalist, but rather an American imperialist.

Amongst many problems that Mr Roach has is his inability to recognise that if you are an apologist for beastly behaviour by Americans towards foreigners (eg Iraqis and Afghans), then it becomes rather difficult to object when the American government authorises similar behaviour towards those Americans it defines as enemies of the state. Still, when the Blackwater goons start rounding up American malcontents, Mr Roach might reasonably expect to be given a cell with a window, a choice of music (other than the Chilli Peppers), and a respite from torture on weekends.

Ian, dude, bad move. Bad move.

I have forwarded this link to the Blackwater high command post in the New York City Freemason temple.  Their agents in the FCC will quickly track you down for arrest and will be sending you to quadrant Z of Guantanamo, where you will be housed in a 4’x4’ pen alongside approx. 5,000 other American citizens that have been identified by the Internal Affairs Division as security risks.

I feel a little guilty about informing on you so I have written you this note to give you a small chance of escape, but hurry, the black helicopters fly fast, and the implanted neurosensors of our crack ATF agents make it very difficult to hide.

Roach, please let me know if there are any other posters you need dispatched.  It will be nice to free the site of some of this inanity. 

Sorry though, we can’t get rid of Raimondo.  He’s been described as extremely damaging to the credibility of the Libertarian movement and so is considered a significant asset to our cause.

I thought you libertarian types were all for privatization.  What’s so bad about PMCs?  Once you get your dream of anarcho-capitalism, the guys at Blackwater will have all the money and the chicks, while the regular white collar types will grovel for their protection. Free enterprise, Baby!

Just for the record, my conservative bona fides have been questioned because I defended America’s rights over the Southwest, which we won long ago and paid for in two separate treaties, and because I suggested that we should surgically (or not-so-surgically) bomb facilities *IF* it turns out the Iranians are genuinely pursuing a nuke and are close to getting one, but I also said we should not worry ourselves with nation-building, counterinsurgencies, or other causes of our present discontent in Iraq.

In the meantime, Patrick Hall in another thread called the Founding Fathers neoconservatives.  Justin above defended the justice of the Reconquista. And someone else, whose name I can’t remember, mocked the idea of a conservative getting a Great Books Education.  I guess we’re all supposed to go to Ron Paul rallies and trade school, while we hang out with our new Mexican amigos reading comic books and pamphlets about the Illuminati!

Another mocking reference to those nutty conspiracy freaks, eh?

“They” see conspiracies everywhere, eh?

Well, you, apparently, do not see them anywhere, not even when they are staring you in the face.

David Manley
Very amusing.

A more formidable body mustered along the shore, to the number,
according to the Spanish accounts, of at least ten thousand warriors,
eager, apparently, to come to close action with the invaders.  Nor could
Pizarro, who had landed with a party of his men in the hope of a
conference with the natives, wholly prevent hostilities; and it might have
gone hard with the Spaniards, hotly pressed by their resolute enemy so
superior in numbers, but for a ludicrous accident reported by the
historians as happening to one of the cavaliers.  This was a fall from his
horse, which so astonished the barbarians, who were not prepared for
this division of what seemed one and the same being into two, that, filled
with consternation, they fell back, and left a way open for the Christians
to regain their vessels!
The animals were no less
above their comprehension; and, when the cock crew, the simple people
clapped their hands, and inquired what he was saying.14 Their intellects
were so bewildered by sights so novel, that they seemed incapable of
distinguishing between man and brute.  23

@Christopher Roach,

In fairness Patrick Hall suggested that the Federalists were neo-con.  They were for their day.  It was the anti-federalists who fought for the conservative parts of the Constitution.  So I would say that he was part right. 

What is wrong with Ron Paul rallies and trade school?

Why a comic book about the Illuminati? No “great books” on the subject?

America is becoming a third-world nation because of massive, non-White, race-replacement immigration.

Period.

Roach! What a perfect name for a neocon warmonger. I can’t defend Justin’s views on immigration
but its the money drain caused by the wars of the cocaRoaches of the world who believe we can
have surgical wars without - dare I say it - BLOWBACK. Snakes like Roach think the strong can go
through life without ethics. It is Roach’s unintended endless wars that will make us a 3rd world
country, moreso than a horde of illegal aliens.