Richard,

Thank you for your diligent efforts on all things Paul and this awful “bailout” bill.  Here’s the tally of Friday’s House vote on whether or not to concur with the Senate’s version of the “bailout”: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

PS - I watched the entire 16+ minute Pelosi ‘soliloquy’.  In it she makes abundantly clear - without intending to do so - the va$t gulf of $eparation between her and her kind and the American people at large. 

Relying on M$ Pelo$i and her kind to attend to the financial wounding of the nation at large is like inviting Freddy Krueger, from “A Nightmare on Elm Street”, to attend to the wounds one would receive from a violent encounter with a pack of jackals.

Thanks for the You Tube clip on Ron Paul, my hero, but, whom the Bilderbergers hate.  Apropos Dr. Paul’s remarks I have a question that I pose for anyone to answer.  From my study of American history there is a constant theme of expansion, whether it be political, geographical or ideological.  The driving forces behind this expansion have been the U.S. business and commercial sectors.  At the core of this dynamism is overproduction and the seeking of new markets to dump the inventories.  Question: could overproduction also be a fundamental reason for the coming bankruptcy of our nation?

The more, More, MORE mantra of modern-day North America has gotten us where we are today, and it isn’t a pretty picture to put it mildly.

Personally I prefer the principle of “better, cheaper, faster”, where ‘cheaper” equates with less expensive, not reduced quality.

Interestingly the advent of the production line with Henry Ford followed the bcf principle to the betterment of society.

But the mmm principle has gotten us the modern day consumer products that are almost impossible to repair, difficult to use, and filling land fill sites.

Interesting that financial services also have succumbed to the mmm mantra, and are also filling the dump sites…

Certainly not progress in my view.

H.F. Wolff

more More MORE is an outgrowth of fallen man’s nature - e.g., lust, gluttony, greed, envy, and pride - and government sanctioned fractional reserve banking.

Sertorius,

“From my study of American history there is a constant theme of expansion, whether it be political, geographical or ideological.”

There is nothing wrong with expansion. An expanding people are a healthy people.  Would Western civilization be better off if Western Man had not conquered America? Would America be a better nation if we had not expanded westward from our original thirteen colonies?
Your study of American history ignores the reality that since the beginning of the 20th century, geographic expansion has not been occurring. Quite the opposite. The Western world is slowly being conquered by outsiders.  Your study of American history has also neglected to mention that within this constant theme of expansion there also existed demographic expansion. Population growth is both a cause and effect of geographic expansion. But this too has come to an end. The result? We no longer feel the internal demographic pressures to preserve our land and property.

This relationship between land ownership, property, and population growth has been overlooked as a primary cause of Western decline.  A growing people are a healthy people because they rarely have difficulty recognizing the primacy of self interest. They do not subsidize immigration with charity and tax dollars. They do not dope up failing minorities with a huge Welfare State in the hopes that they will one day make the necessary cultural changes to survive. They do not fight needless wars for the interests of other nations. They do not hesitate to drill for oil because of environmental concerns. A growing population does not do these things because the physical and psychological pressures caused by demographic expansion trumps these humanistic concerns. How does this all relate to the Financial Crisis? Simple. Population decline has withered away the urgency we once felt to put the interest of Western Man in front of the interest of outsiders. We have become an apathetic population willing to waste our tax dollars on issues that do not truly reflect the interests of Western Man. Yes, we are spending too much, but that is because we are spending our money wastefully.

To Mike Gavin,
Thanks for your imput.  If you will re-read my short statement, you might notice that I did not place a value, either way, on expansion.  Yes, it can be, and has been, a good thing in some places throughout history.  In other places expansion came with brutal exploitation and suppression of a native people, e.g., the American Indian.  Nevertheless, that was not my argument.  The study of American history does show that overproduction is due to the technological advances of the Industrial Revolution, which created overstocked inventories.  To pay for the expensive machinery used in manufacturing, products had to be sold.  Therefore, economic expansion became a necessity.  The same history shows that when the domestic markets had been saturated with these products, new markets had to be found overseas.  And so it goes to this day.  My question turned on whether overproduction might be a factor in the coming bankruptcy of this nation.  You did not address it.

I do like the special atmosphere afforded by the ambulances in the background at the base of the Capitol in Mr. Paul’s rebuke of the capitualists .

The Iraq adventure is a form of counter-argument to Mr. Gavin’s assertion that all our problems are for the lack of a compelling racial exceptionalism , in particular, White Race Supremacy.

Look at the faces singing the praises of this Bail Out Bill, they are still predominantly white. To say that we would not have the problems we do if we were more white is sophistic but beyond that, it signals a kind of racial populism that will, if unleashed, descend quickly into barbarism of the oldest and most vile nature. It will, in all likelihood be one of the first avenues of control used by Statist Thugs who wish a violent instability to shore up their authoritarian malevolence.

While I would agree that the White Man and Woman in this country have a propensity now to want something for nothing and look to be taken care of rather than take care of themselves, I do not agree that independent thinking is an exclusively white province nor is the intemperate Growth for Growth Sake a shining example of White Intellectual and Physical Triumph.

We are suffering the consequences of an extended faith in Fractional Reserve Banking, Fiat Money and the idea that some kind of Vegas-inspired consumer service economy can succeed after we transferred our industrial capacity to dusky regions. Fractional Reserve banking and Fiat money require a little discipline and sober thinking to pull off and we obviously have had a major lapse in this trait. In fact, one could just as easily conclude that White American Triumphalism is as much to blame for the lapse as is the deadening and wrong-headed effects of one-size-fits-all “multiculturalism”.  In short, the hostile agent you’re looking for is your own White Man. Looking for the “spook in the woodpile” only lengthens your stay as a willing and easily led victim.

The failures of social engineering in this country are but one of many exhibits in an indictment of the failures of a consumptive and logic-averse, foolhardy State. However, they are far from the primary causal agent.

Sertorius,

My apologies for the confusion, but this is the way your paragraph reads:

(1) Business and commercial sectors cause overproduction.
(2) Overproduction causes expansion.
(3) Expansion causes bankruptcy.

I thus challenged your argument on two fronts:

(1) Expansion is good.
(2) Expansion is caused more so by demographic pressures than overproduction.

But maybe everything you wrote about “expansion” is just window-dressing. So let’s just concentrate on the last part of your paragraph: “Question: Could overproduction be a fundamental reason for the coming bankruptcy or our nation?”

I think something much different is going on. New markets are not being sought out as much as old markets are being ripped off. Capital is moving abroad so goods can be produced cheaper. These goods are then sold back into the original market—the American people. American workers are thus being deprived of jobs that used to pay moderately high wages.

Is this a cause of the coming bankruptcy of our nation? Sure, international corporations pay fewer taxes and American workers buy cheap goods from Wal-Mart with credit cards.

Dick Sabin,

“The Iraq adventure is a form of counter-argument to Mr. Gavin’s assertion that all our problems are for the lack of a compelling racial exceptionalism, in particular, White Race Supremacy.”

Please explain how the Iraq War is not a result of an Israeli-First neocon agenda.

Please do not attempt to end discussion with the cry of racism.  You will note that I made no reference to race, racial exceptionalism or White Race Supremacy. My exact wording was Western Man, now White Man. This distinction is extremely important.  You will also note that I suggested culturally assimilated minorities would not need the help of a Welfare State.

In regards to the Bail Out, please re-read Sailer’s piece “The Diversity Recession.” He makes an excellent argument that Western Man was not looking out for the interest of Western Man by foolishly extending loans to minorities without credit. Doubtless, most of these minority members have not been assimilated to Western Culture.

Mike Gavin,
Thanks again for treating the question.  I am sorry if I did not make myself clear in my original post.

Mr. Gavin,
I grant you, jumping to “white supremacy” from “Western Man” may be hasty but on the other hand, what is Western Man if not decidedly white?...., notwithstanding a steady and productive incorporation of contributions by non-whites.

As to Sailers article, I’ve seen it and understand it and have seen press releases where the Administration urged their “ownership society” on the mortgage and financial industry. I’ve also heard of people who did not even have a green card who secured mortgages for homes. However, none of this would have happened had the businesses involved on Wall street and the Main Street Banks/mortgage companies exhibited discipline over an urge for a fast buck. Blaming this credit crisis on minorities is an over-statement and another obfuscation....just as the now summary statement that it justifies the “end of the Free Market” is a foolish statement. What Free Market?

Funny, but I do not believe Blackwater nor Halliburton nor any of the other Corporations who thrive off the political machinations of the neo-conservatives are Israeli chartered Corporations. In fact, didn’t one of these Corporations just move their HQ to one of the Persian Gulf Petro-Money Principalities? Sure, we do a lot of things with Israeli interests in mind but it is more a political sales tool than it is any kind of fundamental and “compassionate” regard for Israel.

Western Man is not looking out for Western Man because he thinks he can make a fast buck doing it.

Mr. Sabin,

You make many interesting points.

“None of this would have happened had the businesses involved on Wall Street and the Main Street Banks/mortgage companies exhibited discipline over an urge for a fast buck. Blaming this credit crisis on minorities is an over-statement and another obfuscation.”

It is not minorities that I blame, it is the politicians and special interest groups that generated this affirmative action credit system. Was this partially motivated by the greed of Wall Street and Middle Street Bank/mortgaging? Absolutely. But it was also motivated by liberal politicians and the guilt of conservative politicians who feared being called racists.

“I do not believe Blackwater nor Halliburton nor any of the other Corporations who thrive off the political machinations of the neo-conservatives are Israeli chartered Corporations.”

Discovering who really owns these corporations is not always clear, but for the sake of this discussion, let’s accept the premise that these organizations are not Isreali chartered companies. What does this really mean? Nothing. Determining who profits from war does not necessarily determine who causes war. But again, for the sake of this discussion, let’s accept the theoretical argument that those who profit from war are the primary agents of its causation. I am inclined to agree with Wilmot Robertson (Author of The Dispossessed Majority) that the Military Industrial Complex is an inflated threat intended to divide Western Man against himself and distract from more lethal agents like international financiers. With the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I think there is much to the claim that those who have always gained the most from war are not those who services are purchased to sustain the war effort, instead, it is those who make war financing possible.

“Western Man is not looking out for Western Man because he thinks he can make a fast buck doing it.”

Correct.  Transnational loyalties are often driven by financial greed. But they are also driven by competing national loyalties, idealism and excessive humanistic concern for the interests of outsiders.

Mr. Gavin, I do believe we may agree on as much or more than we disagree. Suffice to say that we will now see a chorus of people loudly proclaim the death of the Free Market and the need for , as Ms. Palin said “Massive Oversight”.

One of the great beauties about the lapsed-American Republic is that one had an ability to craft one’s own reality, actively chose ones affiliates and remain free of either media contamination or government coercion. This, I fear, has changed and its’ change will now quicken.

The last 16 years have seen a bipartisan Statist effort to erase this bit of beneficial free-range anarchy and foster a kind of balkanized lockstep where competing interests are played off one another to achieve an atmosphere of impending encroachment and fear......some of it legitimate but to a large extent, much of it specious and subservient to the overall effort of elevating the State at the Expense of the individual. This State is armed and dangerous and believes imposed democracy out of the barrel of a gun is possible.

Lastly, many of the people who have been “rescued” by the State have actually been enslaved by it and habituated to the mindset of “the victim”. Then, the media and Hollywood elevate this victimhood to commercial “art”.

Thank you for this exchange and my apologies for labeling you a White Race Jackbooter by association with a certain specific choice of words.