I think McCain will lose by double-digits no matter who the Dem candidate is so I think a lot of this Obama v. a third-party candidate stuff will be irrelevant, but it is fun though, I guess.

I can see another scenario more grim occurring.  The horrendous presidency pushes the spectrum not back to the real right, but to the current fake neo-con right and we are right back where we started, only now we have to hear all the I-told-you-so rhetoric of the neo-cons who never admit defeat, or even reality.  I think if Obama wins, which I feel sure he will, we have to hope his presidency is not so bad as to require a shift back to the right because I don’t think it will be our right but the current fake right.

If Obama can’t beat McCain without conservative votes he doesn’t deseve to win. The country is in the tank. He should win by at least 20 points. We need to show all the opposition we can, by organizing and voting third party. The bigger McCain’s loss the better. We should withhold votes from McCain not reward Obama.

Mr. Gottfried. I am afraid there is never going to be an actual political opportunity for us to retrace our steps back in the direction of a republic.

You are absolutely correct in identifying the areas under control by our enemies and I know you could have identified other areas ( TV, Movies, Music, etc) and so that being true, what hope is there?

Other than the theological virtue of Hope, I see no possibility of any political hope.

All inertia, it seems to me, is in the direction of the cycle described by Prof. Peter Kreeft; Luxury leading to Pride, Disaster, Suffering, Repentance, and Blessedness. (although I do not anticipate America experiencing Repentance and Blessedness).

In the last line in the Book of Judges, we read, In those days there was no king in Israel: but every one did that which seemed right to himself.

That describes the vast majority of leaders in almost every area of American life. That is especially true of political leaders who do not obey their oaths to protect and defend the Constitution.

Most of your readers understand that the personal sins of our leaders have national consequences
(See First and Second Samuel) but, for me at least, the Original Sin, ceaselessly repeated, is when our political leaders break The Constitutional Rule of Law on a daily basis. The consequences of that are obvious and discussed here daily. And I won’t even write about the personal sins of our leaders other than to note the extent to which many of them try and make a virtue out of vice - such as gay marriage, legalised abortion etc.

Y’all are much more intelligent and far better read than I am but I have to note that I have yet to read anywhere (in the past 20 years)any plan or program which stands a chance for us to halt and reverse the trajectory into tyranny (actually, we are living in a tyranny, but one is not supposed to write that).

The sole time I read about such a program was in a novel, “Crashmaker,” and I don’t think what was described there is even possible.

So, I will continue to read a few selective websites, such as this one, but I do not hold out any hope any man or plan will arise to stand against powerful enemies who, if they are as powerful as we think they are, would never suffer us to gain political power.

The best we can do is to run a Harry Browne, Howard Phillips or Ron Paul every decade or so and exercise false hope.

While it does provide for some joviality the worst thing about it is the false hope it raises.

Repeated often enough it is an action which does not strengthen will so much as it does court cynicism.

BTW, I have no idea what can be done politically but I reject out-of-hand the idea that one ought vote for Obama due to his voting record on life issues.

His record makes the ideas/practices of NARAL, by comparison, seem clinically circumspect and philosophically reasonable.

“The first result is as likely as the second”

Mr. Gottfried, with great respect, I must ask: Have we truly reached the tragic point in our history where the only way to awaken Western Man from his apathy, idealism and guilt is to elect the antichrist to office? Are we to push all our chips in and bet everything on a probability of 50%? Because I dare say that the long-term negative outcome you allude to will result in the irreversible self-destruction of the West. “Just as likely that a backlash would occur” is not enough for me to risk the fate of Western civilization.

Mr Gavin,

I do not think it could be made any more clear, but Western Civilisation is already lying its head down on the chopping block.  If the state of things continue, Western Civilisation and the human race will not survive.  This could be, short of a direct retribution by Almighty God, our only chance.

The most optimistic predictions related to “After Obama Comes Us” may be:  1) Obama gets the US out of Iraq; 2) the ocean of red ink that is America’s finances will drown his attempts to increase entitlements for his voting blocs.  Of course, neither prediction is a certainty.  I don’t see Obama withdrawing from Iraq if that means closing down all those US bases and allowing the nation to descend into hell, nor do I anticipate Obama saying no to his constituents on affirmative action and other statist goodies.

The idea that the fake right would be the winner of an Obama failure is an important insight.  However, I agree with those who say support a 3rd party now.  I think one should avoid voting for a candidate who is for your destruction, as all 3 in the race are.

Sigh! Where to begin? Chuck Baldwin is right on immigration, the Iraq War and the American/Western tradition. But he can’t win, or even give a decent showing, so we should cast our Machiavellian ballots for Obama, who is wrong on Immigration, partly right on the Iraq War, but seriously wrong on our traditions.

1) If Obama wins the Presidency, it will be with huge majorities in Congress. What that will mean for judicial selections, military senior officer selection, education and foreign policy, I shudder to think. Those urging Paleos to vote for this result should consider that the country is so far gone that, yes, it could react and eventually turn our way; but under a massive left wing assault with massive media complicity, the country could also reach a critical mass of political/bureaucratic control that can never be undone. The nation as we think of it could suffer an irreversible decent leading to demise, so how can we in good conscience risk it.

Voting for Baldwin will at least permit: 1) Voting one’s conscience, 2) Registering your dissent to the two-party managed sham electoral process, and 3) for once in your life, voting FOR something, not just against.

An Obama win followed by disaster will re-vitalize the current Republican Party.  People will not say “We should have voted for Ron Paul”, they’ll say “We should have voted for John McCain”.  At the same time that this site will saying, “See, we told you so”, the mainstream “conservative” and neocon media personalities that Mr. Gottfried so despises will all be saying exactly the same thing.  Whose message will be heard more?

People won’t remember why they turned away from the Republicans in 2008.  The Republicans will suddenly be the saviors, as Obama is the savior today.  The result: a big Republican/neocon win in 2012.  Whoopee.

This Leninist strategy might work if you’ve got a trained group of cadres ready to seize power by (literally) violent revolution.  If not, then we should be careful about looking to Tsarist Russia for our political strategies.

Ploni Almoni

?At the same time that this site will saying, “See, we told you so”, the mainstream “conservative” and neocon media personalities that Mr. Gottfried so despises will all be saying exactly the same thing.  Whose message will be heard more?”

Absolutely correct. Until we have seized control of the cultural apparatuses of power, or at least built competitive propaganda machines, our message will never be heard above the neocon media forces.

I suppose the counterargument would be that the backlash from Obama will finally give us the political clout we need to seize control of the cultural apparatuses of power. Unfortunately, even if this is true, I fear the consequences of an Obama presidency will be too much to endure. Consider for a moment that four (eight?) years under Obama will mean no security fence, increased welfare benefits and universal healthcare, all of which will likely double the number of illegals crossing our border. How many more aliens can we sustain without Balkanization?

What I’m assuming is the kind of crisis that voting for moderate leftists in the
Republican Party won’t seem to be able to fix. I would also hope that Mike Gavin’s
dream of creating an effective vanguard of counterrevolution would also be possible,
but if the crisis generated by this black nationalist president allied to multicultural
maniacs is serious enough, we might be replacing the bimbos on the rightist equivalent
of FOX.

Paul,
I wish I could agree with your assessment. Everything would depend on a potential “backlash,” that would follow Obama’s missteps as future president. That scenario SOUNDS plausible, but what really concerns me is that just about every means of communication, every major cultural/educational institution, is now safely in the hands of the Left (of whatever stripe). Those of our ilk are in no way capable, at least at the moment, of mounting any kind of counter-attack, or even presenting a reasonable alternative on a general level to the American populace. If there were a reaction, it would almost inevitably favor the Republicans, and not us. More likely, an Obama win would continue at a much greater pace, and speed up the Leftist p.c. control of America, with new “hate thought” and “hate speech” laws, a la “Le Loi Gayssot,” etc., and many of us would be cooling our heels in jail (no kidding).

Finally, I have to admit, as a traditional Catholic, I simply cannot, from a moral viewpoint, vote for Obama. I years past the bishops would have issued a statement underlining that.But since I cannot vote for McCain, in conscience, I will vote a write-in this year (in North Caroloina only the Democrat and GOP candidates will be on the ballot).

God help us one and all!

What I’m assuming is the kind of crisis that voting for moderate leftists in the
Republican Party won’t seem to be able to fix.

Note that even now, neocons like Charles Krauthammer are standing up eloquently and forcefully against Obama’s race hustling.  I think it’s a shame that they’re not being praised for that by paleos, but that’s a separate issue.  The point is that the mainstream Right will appear to be able to fix the problems--remember who it is that shapes appearances--and to a partial extent that appearance will even be justified: The neocon/Republican Right is, on some of the more important issues, significantly to the right of Obama. 

All of us right-wing extremists need to keep that in mind, and not let anti-neocon polemics distract us from that fact.  Paradoxically, by denying what we do share with the mainstream Right as opposed to the liberal Left, we may facilitate the mainstream Right’s return to power in 2012.

“And while they were arguing the
why-for’s and where-to’s the sun
came up and SWOOSH! They were all
turned into stone.” -Bilbo Baggins

Stick to your principles.
Don’t vote for your drunken
brother in-law.
Advising conservatives to
intervene in this election by
caving in is somewhat like
Churchill advising Roosevelt to
ignore the America Firster’s.